Woman thrown out of Sainsbury's for not wearing a mask.

[Viviennemary]

When asked why she wasn't wearing one she told the police they were not allowed to challenge her or ask about her disability. (wrong apparently). She said she'd be taking them to court. Police have criticised ministers for giving conflicting advice. I think it's time this was cleared up. It's far too vague. So seems like people do need some proof of the reasons they can't wear a mask.

[quote Argh3456]@JamesMiddletonsMarshmallows My GP isn't swamped at all and is resorting to batting off every appointment through an econsult process so I don't think that assumption is honestly valid. I don't profess to have the solution but I think it's about time we address those who feel entitled and simply don't want to wear a mask. They ruin it for those who genuinely are exempt. I don't think there is a one size fits all rule but simply printing off a page off the internet or buying a lanyard isn't acceptable as the anti-maskers, like this woman in the video who prompted this whole discussion, are abusing the system. I'm honestly sick of some people just thinking they're holier than thou and putting the rest of us at risk, and making things more difficult for those vulnerable and exempt. [/quote]
So why should disabled people suffer because of the piss takers?

@Icanseegreenshoots

Sainsburys were right, and she can 'take them to court' but it will be thrown out. She is being unreasonable to expect to be allowed to go in without proof of her disability. She knew the rules.

There are ways of providing proof, so she should have considered them first or made arrangements to click and collect outside (our M&S offer this) so she does not need a mask.

She is clearly another chancer -whether she is disabled or not she does not have the right to potentially kill other people.

But she doesn't have to show proof - that's her whole point and the government has said as much, several times. It's very clear that disabled people don't have to show proof of exemption so I think the question of "why don't they know the rules" is on the police.

They need to introduce the requirements to carry an official exemption.

I say this as a parent of a child with disabilities. If everyone takes the piss places are going to be less happy to offer support.

And yes you might have to pay to get an exemption letter. At least then only people who really need it will bother and there will be less need to challenge them

[quote RedMarauder]@JamesMiddletonsMarshmallows they can ban her if she was being argumentative with any staff member over mask wearing.[/quote]
No she can't because she was arguing that she is disabled and that's why she is entitled to shop without a mask. Kicking her out anyway is discriminatory

Is she exempt or is she a "self proclaimed anti-masker"?

I do think people should have to prove that they are exempt but not why. I mean they will have to have "proved" it to someone In an official capacity to get the exemption but not to anyone else.

@bobbojobbo

Their reason was she wasn't wearing a mask. She can't we eat a mask because she is disabled. Therefore they are banning her for her disability

Bollocks. She wasn't wearing a mask because she's a tit.

So is every person, even disabled people not wearing a mask "a tit"? Or just this woman? If so, why?

The problem is there's a lot of belligerent anti maskers who make it harder for those who really struggle to wear a mask.

The entire families and groups of lads in supermarkets without masks aren't exempt. They're prolonging this pandemic.

@WanderingMilly I couldnt have put it better myself!

Dont want to wear a mask? Stay out of the shops. Problem solved.

Same here - exempt - but why would I want to expose myself to covid through said exemption? . For this reason I find mask exempt who still insist on going to crowded shops very weird. So you don’t give a f**k about others, but why imperil yourself?

I’m sure if you had a genuine mask exemption you could get a priority delivery slot.

I'm sure some people are exempt from the law of having to wear a seatbelt. I'm also pretty sure that the police can give them a ticket unless they can prove it at the time of being stopped. And the onus is on the person to either prove it at the time or get proof quickly and the ticket is rescinded. Whether it's to do with a disability or not.

I don't see people arguing over whether or not they should have to prove it for this and I don't see the difference.

So is every person, even disabled people not wearing a mask "a tit"? Or just this woman? If so, why?

The paper refers to her as a "self proclaimed anti masker" which implies she is a tit. If true, obviously.

If anything not wearing a seatbelt is less of an issue as it would generally only affect the person not wearing it. But not wearing a mask risks others so the burden of proof should be there.

"I am technically exempt but I always wear a mask. The reason I’m exempt is the same reason I’m more likely to die if I get Covid."

You are not exempt. There is not a list of exempt conditions/disabilities. You are exempt if you can not wear a mask. If you are wearing a mask then you can wear a mask and are therefore not exempt.

People really need to understand this better.

We see many posts asking why Asian countries are doing better than us Do you think they have these conversations?

I haven’t seen people in shops without masks for a long time, maybe it depends on the area you live in. Surely you do have to give some details if it is the police who ask, not the same as having a civilian asking. I don’t think it’s wrong to enforce the law but I dislike the view of some people that anyone unable to wear a mask should not be allowed in shops at all.

If she wants to pursue it through the courts I bet they'll be asking for proof that she's exempt pre dating this incident, I wonder how willing she will be then.

Yep let's isolate disabled people even more shall we? It's illegal to ask someone to prove that they're disabled. Someone's medical history should not be up for scrutiny for the sake of not wearing a flimsy piece of fabric that makes very little difference.

I wear a mask and am not exempt. But i don't judge people who don't because I'm not a cunt. Why they aren't wearing one is none of my business.

Also shops reserve the right to refuse service to anyone.

I think a lot of the non mask wearing is cultural and not related to disability.

I live in Scotland and it’s very rare here to see someone in a shop without a mask. Most times I shop in a large supermarket in a city and I see no one without a mask ( except small children of course ).

Then I see post on MN about many people not wearing them in shops in England

I’m pretty sure the rate of disability is the same here as in the rest of the Uk.

I saw the video - the police/security were polite - they weren't asking specifics & frankly all she had to say was I have hidden disability or have difficulty wearing mask but her attitude was abrasive (to put it mildly) & confrontational. The police have been put in a no-win situation - the people I feel sorriest for are the staff who are being put at daily risk. As someone who has family member who is vulnerable we have self isolated & have deliveries & with the situation as serious as it is - I think we have got to the stage of thinking that if we cannot protect others by wearing a mask (especially the shop workers - after all you wear a mask to protect others) we need to reconsider our actions. I actually think from listening is that this is more about her making a statement than about her as a possible victim. No one has to be specific about the nature of their disability only that they have a genuine reason - ie I have difficulty breathing with one -that's all she needed to say

There is actually no legal basis for either supermarkets or Police to be entitled to see proof of medical exemption. Businesses can actually be at risk of civil action for disability discrimination if they refuse entry without proof.

This article explains it well

The NPCC (The National Police Chiefs Council) has responded by saying police have “clear guidance” on the exemptions to face coverings rules.

“Officers will have conversations with people to understand if they are exempt,” said an NPCC spokeswoman.

"Whilst officers will be inquisitive to establish the facts, we are clear that there is no requirement to provide medical proof of an exemption."

The government website states:

'Exemption cards
If you have an age, health or disability reason for not wearing a face covering:

you do not routinely need to show any written evidence of this
you do not need show an exemption card
This means that you do not need to seek advice or request a letter from a medical professional about your reason for not wearing a face covering.

However, some people may feel more comfortable showing something that says they do not have to wear a face covering. This could be in the form of an exemption card, badge or even a home-made sign.

Carrying an exemption card or badge is a personal choice and is not required by law.'

@rosie1959

We see many posts asking why Asian countries are doing better than us Do you think they have these conversations?

I do t believe they are doing better primarily because of face coverings. The key is identifying and isolating outbreaks and controlling borders.

Some of us who work either in retail or in my case a pharmacy have to work. We can't work from home. I don't think it is too much to ask that if I can wear a mask for 8 hours straight to protect you and everyone else who walks through the door that you can't do the same for me for 15 minutes (or less). Yes there is an issue for those that are disabled but we have online shopping, click and collect services, smaller local shops where you are less likely to encounter people and put them or yourself at risk. There are volunteer services that can help you to do your shopping ot get your medicines too. It is the I will do what I bloody well want brigade that annoy me without a care to anyone else. We all have to make sacrifices at the moment and accept that we are not living life normally at the moment. My uncle died of covid-19 at the weekend so maybe that is making me more tetchy.

Perhaps the answer will be for the police to issue fixed penalty notices to non mask wearers, who are then free to appeal against it with evidence of their disability through the appeal process/courts. Just as would be the same process for any other fixed penalty notices issued by the police, many of which are withdrawn via the appeal process or upheld via the courts.

Her right not to say why she's not wearing one and supermarkets right to tell her she's not welcome then.

She was a dick.