Woman thrown out of Sainsbury's for not wearing a mask.

[Viviennemary]

When asked why she wasn't wearing one she told the police they were not allowed to challenge her or ask about her disability. (wrong apparently). She said she'd be taking them to court. Police have criticised ministers for giving conflicting advice. I think it's time this was cleared up. It's far too vague. So seems like people do need some proof of the reasons they can't wear a mask.

Have their been any cases of people who have a genuine reason for not being able to wear a mask and who politely say “I’m really sorry but I’m unable to wear a mask” being kicked out?

Or is the real issue coming from self obsessed people like this lady who want to make a song and dance and add to the issue rather than helping anything.

Retail staff often hate doing Think 25 because if people don't have ID they kick off. Some do get really aggressive. But by and large it's accepted that, even if you're well over 18: no ID, no service.

There were many videos on SM from the US from shops that had signs saying, 'No shirt, no shoes, no mask, no service' and people were having huge tantrums and quoting constitutions and all sorts.

But I couldn't understand why we were so lax over here. If the rules were laid out at the start rather than it becoming clear very quickly that the 'loopholes' made mask wearing optional, we probably wouldn't be having this resistance now.

IME people who are genuinely exempt are worried and keep their head down, not brazen and gobby. I'm actually 99% sure that if you were approached in a store by staff and said, 'I'm really sorry, I am exempt and couldn't get a delivery slot and no one could come in for me' they would do something to help. They already have pickers for click and collect, even if you had to come back in an hour or something to pick it up.

When will people understand that ships don’t have to serve anyone they don’t want to. So they have the right to tell her to leave. End of.

@SoupDragon

The government website states that you simply need to say that you are medically exempt. You don’t have to disclose your medical history to an stranger.

The problem is that this isn't working because some people are twats and just don't want to wear a mask. I bet they are then crowing about it in anti mask groups (if they exist). A few twats are ruining it for the many ordinary people who are doing their best.

I very rarely see adults without a mask on in supermarkets. I don’t live in a quiet area either. I wear a mask in supermarkets, but I wouldn’t attack someone with a hidden disability/illness.

Group A who can't wear a mask or
Group B who need people to wear a mask?

I guess it's about mutual respect - group A (the majority) will mostly have things in place to minimise triggers for example if it's PTSD because we deal with triggers out of our control all of the time.
Group B - need to minimise their contact with people who don't wear a mask.

Ultimately the way it is, everyone is losing out in the groups.

@frumpety
He was talking to an ex colleague the other day who lives in France, they said everyone wears a mask to the shops, is it a UK thing or are other European countries having the same issues ?
I'm in a European country, there are no issues here about people who are mask exempt. No mask, no entry. It's definitely a U.K. thing.

@MilkTwoSugarsThanks

Having a non-visible illness/disability does not automatically make you more vulnerable to covid19. People with autism or those with PTSD from violent rape just want to get their groceries without being hounded and discriminated against. Makes me sad that many people relish in causing disabled people distress.

And yet their inability to wear a mask causes distress to people with disabilities different to theirs.

Who trumps who?

Group A who can't wear a mask or
Group B who need people to wear a mask?

The default is no mask, so that should be the trumping group.

[quote Fuckingcrustybread]@frumpety
He was talking to an ex colleague the other day who lives in France, they said everyone wears a mask to the shops, is it a UK thing or are other European countries having the same issues ?
I'm in a European country, there are no issues here about people who are mask exempt. No mask, no entry. It's definitely a U.K. thing.[/quote]
So rape, and associated PTSD is a solely uk phenomenon?

Give over.

I am so fucking sick of this

Little Stasi wannabes picking on women (it's always women) and people backing them up!!

She's right - she has NO obligation to share her information. I thought she behaved brilliantly. She was calm, she knew her rights, and the prick police officers refused to even look at the law she was presenting them (doesn't surprise me as they seem to like to make it up). I hope she does sue them.

Amen. FWIW I do wear a mask (although evidence of their effectiveness has yet to be convincing); I see it as a reasonable courtesy to others. IMO it's a small thing to ask for in comparison with the severe restrictions on our movements, the sneaking through of legislation (non-finite) that would have appalled most of us as recently as a year ago, and the increasing heavy-handedness and authoritarian attitudes of the police.

It's the latter I have the real objection to and I take my hat off to her for the way she handled it. The police should be embarrassed. She knew the law/guidelines; they evidently didn't.

The shop can of course refuse to serve anyone they wish for whatever reason they see fit. This wasn't the issue here.

And yes, isn't it interesting that those apprehended are almost always women?

@MilkTwoSugarsThanks

Having a non-visible illness/disability does not automatically make you more vulnerable to covid19. People with autism or those with PTSD from violent rape just want to get their groceries without being hounded and discriminated against. Makes me sad that many people relish in causing disabled people distress.

And yet their inability to wear a mask causes distress to people with disabilities different to theirs.

Who trumps who?

Group A who can't wear a mask or
Group B who need people to wear a mask?

If you can’t wear a mask then discussing your medical history to strangers could cause psychological distress. You clearly don’t understand PTSD. If you’re so terrified of catching the virus then you should stay home. Stop the discrimination. I would never demand to know someone else’s medical history. That’s horrific.

@Tiktokersmiracle

They did originally say under the disabilities act they do not have to show proof of disability and those who fail to treat a disability as a protected characteristic can be fined up to £9000. So from that respect she was correct. Where the argument is vague is that shops and those who run them can revoke the right of service as they see fit. Do we really want to block up GP surgeries with people getting rubber stamped letters of exemption? Yes you do get Muppets saying they're exempt but I think they're more likely to be like Laurence Fox and buy an unofficial badge. There is no such thing as a recognised exemptions badge and frankly as the parent of a child who is exempt I would rather not get into a situation where I have to pay for an exemption. I also think it should be remembered that some people will find it embarrassing to explain their exemption, such as those with anxiety after being attacked and a hand being over their mouth. That is where the system is shaky.

This. I am not mask exempt, and I do wear a mask. But I can understand that some people might find it hard to disclose information like that.

Unfortunately again, piss takers making it harder for people with genuine exemptions.

In the many countries where 'no mask, no entry' is a thing - the people who don't wear masks probably just shop online or ask someone else to get it.

A few people seem to be confused about the right to refuse service.

Businesses are absolutely not permitted to refuse service for any of the protected characteristics laid down in the Equalities Act.

They can no more refuse to serve you for not wearing a mask than they can for being gay/black/Muslim.

Mask exemptions need to be scrapped.

It’s interesting how nowhere else do people make such a big deal about needing to be exempt from wearing a mask, and people just do.

And yes, I have a disability and I am exempt.

if and tbh it’s a big if, masks are really so hard for some, then there needs to be a blue badge type scheme to prove your actual exemption.

Simply going into a shop and saying “I am exempt and you’re not allowed to question me isn’t good enough.

@Joeblack066

When will people understand that ships don’t have to serve anyone they don’t want to. So they have the right to tell her to leave. End of.

This is only half true. They can't not serve for them for, eg because they don't want to serve black/asian/disabled people. If she is actually genuinely unable to wear a mask because of a medical condition, then they are potentially discriminating against her and this would be illegal.

A shop can, for eg ask you to leave if you are causing trouble/drunk/disorderly etc.

Businesses are absolutely not permitted to refuse service for any of the protected characteristics laid down in the Equalities Act.

Is being an anti masker a protected characteristic?

This thread is getting silly. People saying they havent been able to get a slot since April, there are no slots, they dont want to do this and that.

FGS - we are in the middle of a pandemic. All of us are doing things we dont like to do and trying to find solutions. This stupid women is the one spoiling it for the genuinely exempt and I honest now dont think there are that many of them.

So people are medically exempt but:

Cannot find any slots EVER at ANY store
Cannot use NHS responders
Cannot ask a neighbour
Cannot see if there are any Facebook volunteers
Havent got any relatives, work colleagues just no one in the whole world
Cannot shop without someone else who for another reason cannot wear a mask either. Its becoming stupid.

As long as their right to go to a store is not stopped sod the rest of the people around. Their rights trump absolutely everyone else.

I think it's about time we address those who feel entitled and simply don't want to wear a mask.

Yes, true, but in equal measure also need to make sure that those with hidden disabilities don't feel intimidated by police when entering a shop without one. I think that to solve both issues, if you are medically exempt, you should be given an exemption card signed off by a representing health professional. This prevents anti-maskers from taking the piss and allows disabled people to present their card without the need for an explanation of the particular disability.

Forgive me if this has already been said but there are quite a few anti-maskers going out deliberately getting themselves filmed in supermarkets and posting the results on twitter.
It's got to the point where I can't be arsed to differentiate between those who may have a genuine grievance and felt they were treated high handedly, and those who haven't.

Just wear the mask. If anyone has a medical reason for not - get a letter from your doctor to carry.

The default is no mask, so that should be the trumping group.

But wearing a mask is now law so no mask is not the default. Bit like the (yeah - I know - I'm sorry - everyone hates the comparison) seatbelt.

If you can’t wear a mask surely a better option would be to order online instead? That way you won’t be increasing the risk to others including the poor workers by not wearing one. Or get a visor. Or get someone else to do your shopping for you?

@Theunamedcat

Slots are not that easy to come by NOT EVERYONE DISABLED IS ENTITLED TO PRIORITY SLOTS

I'm sorry but none of you seem to understand this

Yes I do understand.

I'm not entitled to one because although I'm (a) CEV, and (b) disabled (and yes, I had to prove it to other people whom I do not know) I do not live alone.

The other person(s) in the house are expected to shop for me, or I get a regular delivery slot like everyone else.

I haven't starved yet. Medicines are delivered.

What medical reasons mean someone is unable to wear a mask for the time it takes to use a shop? I get that it feels like you can't breathe, but it's just a feeling and not fact. People with all kinds of illnesses have said they're wearing masks (such as COPD) so I'm curious to know which medical issues people think prohibits the wearing of a mask.

I totally understand people with SEN/MH issues or traumatised people being unable to cope with wearing a mask.

@SoupDragon

Businesses are absolutely not permitted to refuse service for any of the protected characteristics laid down in the Equalities Act.

Is being an anti masker a protected characteristic?

Disability absolutely is.

...but you know that.

NikeDeLaSwoosh that is quite a leap, logic-wise. The point the PPs were making is that in other countries (with lower infection rates and fewer deaths than in the UK) people just get on with it an wear a mask because it is the law and they weren't given the option of a vague get-out from the outset.

Of course people the world over have suffered trauma of all kinds. They still make a judgement about whether to endure the mask in order to go to public places where it's required, for as long as it takes, or to make alternative arrangements. Because it's in the public interest, a civic responsibility.