Not Economic Immigrants and the British class system

[Fressia123]

I know this probably has been done and nauseam but it still intrigues me. Where do immigrants fit into the the British class system? And I don't mean the type that end up here because they're looking for a better life but rather because they married a Brit. Do they inherit their spouses' class?

Where I'm from I'm upper middle/ upper class. People think I'm a snob but it's not like I can erase my upbringing.
The other day I visited my SIL and felt stupid to mention my DMs housekeeper and gardener (it was within context). I sometimes have to clarify that by "nanny" I mean that and not my grandmother.

Obviously my life here is vastly different to what I grew up in, but I know for certain I don't have to worry about retirement and that bank of mum and dad will always have my back. That o was classically trained in piano and went to expensive private schools. I still care about the finer things in life.

So bottom line would I be working class like my DP or middle/upper that I was born in?

My DP thinks that at first glance I'm agreeable but when I feel comfortable I stop trying to control myself and that's when people might find me a snob. He says that I should also find solace that ultimately they're not my type of people. But beyond fitting in or not I've always wondered if social classes were transferable or not so to speak.

Me, I think there are two kinds of people. The ones who on moving to a different place (whether a new country or a new social class or both) are willing to meet the locals halfway and do some adapting and the ones who aren't. If by "spark" you mean the feeling that these people are exactly like me and immediately get my background and experiences, then tbh you may have to wait a long time. If you are willing to make friends across different experiences and different cultural norms, then you probably can.

Can I suggest you watch "Keeping Up Appearances", OP?

@Descant that it true because he'd been my consistent window to British society (and MN!)

But his ‘window’ is as likely to be subjective, partial and biased as anyone else’s, OP. No, you are highly unlikely to meet many other people in your husband’s village or family circles who have had your exact life experiences, but that’s really not necessary for friendships. You’re not an alien species.

No, you are highly unlikely to meet many other people in your husband’s village or family circles who have had your exact life experiences, but that’s really not necessary for friendships.

THIS. You sound strangely helpless when it comes to connecting to other people and finding out for yourself what makes them tick.

But I've nev r had that issue until moved here. Again, at work I've never had an issue for.spme reason.

@Fressia123

Yea we have DC and this is where he lived so we stayed. He's fairly class blind and blends into different social situations. He's also the most beautiful and loving man I've ever met so in that way it was a no brainer. He says I'm definitely different and will find it hard to fit in with the other mums. BTW "HUN" is the type that loves glitter / rose gold/ and messages around their homes like "eat, pray, love".

This post definitely paints you as a snob! If you give off even 10% if this in front of me, I would label you a snob and wouldn’t bother on forging any friendship with you.

Well my paternal side is definitely old money (grandfather had a castle and df grew up in a house with a name and grounds) but I'm firmly working class, my dad married a scouser and I grew up in Liverpool.

Having old money parents doesn't make you posh.

But I've nev r had that issue until moved here. Again, at work I've never had an issue for.spme reason.

What other cultures have you tried to fit into on the same basis, not just as a young professional but as an adult and a parent? Because that is the bit that I found really needed a different kind of effort. Very worth it though.

Gosh horrible typos! Just British. I've lived in France, Mexico, the US, and Oz but all in my 20s.

The British Jewish community has been very welcoming though.

I'm American with an English husband and been married nearly 25 years.

My husband was brought up in a council estate in Greater Manchester and I am a child of immigrants to the US so we were both born solidly in the "working class". However, my husband joined the RAF at 17 and quickly rose up the ranks. When he left at age 25, he was highly sought after in the burgeoning internet/Telecoms/IT sector and later we started up our own business. We moved up from the "working class" to a more "middle class/ upper middle class" life. I do know that in England, the "middle class" probably refers to professions such as doctors, engineers and educators, etc... but to an American, it's our income.

My point is that you are what you make of yourself.

OP, the terms in which you describe yourself in your title strike me — does it matter so much that you’re a ‘non-economic migrant’? Do you see that as a key distinction between you and economic migrants? And why is that key to your sense of where you might ‘fit’ in the class system, rather than other elements of your identity? You don’t, for instance, mention your nationality — or the nationality you are likely to be perceived as being (if you’re a mixture — are you likely to be perceived as American?) by those you live among — or your Jewishness?

I’m just not sure I view ‘non-economic migrant’ as a meaningful category in social terms. I moved to the UK to study at Oxford, and a neighbour somewhere I lived years later had moved from India to marry a British Asian man, and we had a cleaner who had originally come to the UK to bury her son, who had died while working in England as a circus acrobat, and I don’t think there were any meaningful similarities between the three of us.

I’m not sure what you mean by class to be honest. I think ‘class, isn’t as easily defined as it once was. Obviously people tend to find it easier to befriend people they have similar interests and life experiences to. There aren't going to be loads of people who have experienced having a nanny/gardener etc.

I can definitely see why people wouldn't be falling over themselves to welcome you into the fold. People who are constantly thinking about themselves and their status, and where they fit, and why they are oh so superior, are a dead bore.

Sadly immigrants can be the worst for this. Newsflash. You're just another immigrant. No more, no less.

'Fressia123
We live in an average house (partly bought by my parents). DC don't go to private schools because I didn't see the point although my parents offered to pay. After meeting a mum whose kids go to the local private school I might change my mind for the baby. We do our shopping depending what we're buying.. News I read the BBC and sometimes the French press.
Oh yes I remember - you're the one wanting to put the 13 year old in a shed aren't you because you can't afford to properly house the kids you have and you want more.

So why aren't your parents coming to your rescue I wonder?'

I remember that thread, tiny terraced house with not enough bedrooms for all the kids and wanting the eldest to sleep in a shed thingy on the patio as you can't afford to extend.

I also was on your thread about hypothetically moving your mum who is now on her own to the Uk and how she could outstay on a Visa and tap into the NHS

Oh Op it's very confusing.

'I don't have to worry about retirement and that bank of mum and dad will always have my back.'

Maybe they or She would help you out if they knew the situation with your housing and the dc sleeping arrangements?

I say this because the "immigrant class" is perceived differently. I might be wrong but I thought that was the case. IME other expats who end up marrying Brits end up being part of that social status/class. On the same token most end marrying "higher up". I'm Mexican but even with my fellow co-nationals I clash. But it's not just me, I think we just lived in a bubble as a family. Their perception/experience of Mexico is very different to mine. When I lived in London I made friends with people of all nationalities.

Like o said they refuse to buy a bigger house because they don't think it their responsibility to help my DP house his kids. Of I lived alone they wouldn't have an issue or if I ended up with another baby, as it is that's they're standing.

They're very much against liquidating any assets. I own property that would solve my housing issue but they don't let me sell it. After thinking about it and talking to my DM we do have enough for her 2million visa but they'd have to sell some properties and lose in tax.

OP, have you figured out where you belong yet? Does it still matter to you? And what would finding out do for you?

Live in help can't be a thing for the vast vast majority of people in the Uk (and Europe I suppose) because the law requires employers to pay a certain amount and provide various benefits. It's completely cheaper elsewhere. I'm not saying there's rights and wrongs in that, I'm sure plenty of poorer families in other parts of the world have had their living standards rise as a result of someone working as live in help.
Does it make you a better class because of this? Of course not, it just means you come from somewhere with a wider discrepancy between rich and poor than the UK.
I was an expat in Dubai for a long time, as are thousands of other westerners. Things they couldn't afford at home, like private schools, maids, nannies, villas with swimming pools, gas guzzling 4x4s, were soon all within reach. Did those people suddenly change class in the UK because they had access to these things? Lots of people let it get to their heads, yes, but most at the end of the day realised that a life like that was only achievable due to a mixture of a western education, cheaper labour and more lax climate laws.
They're just things at the end of the day. You can't compare wealth and its buying power across the world. The UK was like other places in the world over 100 years ago, but people have firmly voted to have a more equal society here. Therefore, class comes down to various subtle choices not having help etc. Although the class system here may be daft and confusing, thank god it's not as stringent as elsewhere.

@allhappeningatonce I think that would have been the case before but not currently. A live in housekeeper has a better salary than a young professional. Not every employer pays for their NI but we do and always have. My nanny's grandchildren went to university and there's a couple of engineers, one architect and a teacher. She always called herself "middle class" so you can see how our perception of social classes are completely different.

@ExpatInBritain I've always felt at home in the US but haven't lived there tong term in many many years. I've stayed for work for weeks and I could definitely see myself living there. I love France and have lived there a couple of years but obviously my children and DP would struggle with the language. I've also thoy of Israel as an option (my DM has too) but you end up living in expat bubbles and I'm not sure that's be my thing either.

I know a few people who have affluent families in other countries and grew up with housekeepers etc, if they move to London it's simply unaffordable and they live in very small flats. To be rich in London you need to be obscenely rich.

Your situation sounds really complicated and unusual...

@DisgraceToTheYChromosome

Why do you care what class you're perceived as? Rather more important is the perception of your character. Our local Duke has a 60 inch TV and a slab of beer on display, and the Duchess organises cage fights. All very Guy Ritchie, but then when your family's in Shakespeare you can do what you want. That's the confidence to aim for.

OMG- would that be cage fights between the serfs??