Not Economic Immigrants and the British class system

[Fressia123]

I know this probably has been done and nauseam but it still intrigues me. Where do immigrants fit into the the British class system? And I don't mean the type that end up here because they're looking for a better life but rather because they married a Brit. Do they inherit their spouses' class?

Where I'm from I'm upper middle/ upper class. People think I'm a snob but it's not like I can erase my upbringing.
The other day I visited my SIL and felt stupid to mention my DMs housekeeper and gardener (it was within context). I sometimes have to clarify that by "nanny" I mean that and not my grandmother.

Obviously my life here is vastly different to what I grew up in, but I know for certain I don't have to worry about retirement and that bank of mum and dad will always have my back. That o was classically trained in piano and went to expensive private schools. I still care about the finer things in life.

So bottom line would I be working class like my DP or middle/upper that I was born in?

Oh you’re french? I assumed American.
If you’re french that explains it all.

Well indeed common territory is the key to it, thus why I have no issues with people at work, I definitely feel at home there but I don't know if mums/older generations are different.

At work we talk politics, current affairs but mostly music (as that's what we all love). We understand the references we make, etc... They find my "quirks" funny rather than odd. Maybe it's the culture at our workplace who knows!

At the temple/congregation I always feel at home too, but that's because we have a lot in common.

@Fressia123

We live in an average house (partly bought by my parents). DC don't go to private schools because I didn't see the point although my parents offered to pay. After meeting a mum whose kids go to the local private school I might change my mind for the baby. We do our shopping depending what we're buying.. News I read the BBC and sometimes the French press.

Oh yes I remember - you're the one wanting to put the 13 year old in a shed aren't you because you can't afford to properly house the kids you have and you want more.

So why aren't your parents coming to your rescue I wonder?

You sound really snobby. Sorry.

That's more convoluted @titchy . They're happy to solve my life but not my parents (and that's fair enough). Although I'm sure of we had another one they'd come to the rescue.

Oh I remember that thread. And that poster.

Maybe your issue with the school is that you and your partner had an affair and your kids were at the same school? Maybe that’s why folks at school aren’t so friendly?

‘No brainer’? What an odd choice of words for someone who is trying to portray themselves as being upper class.

What is key is that no matter what class you may think you belong to, your actions, behaviour and choice of words will always reveal your true character regardless and anyone who truly has a higher Social Standing will see right through you.

Literally the only time I ever think about class or social standing is when I read threads on Mumsnet.

MN is obsessed with class.

Take my advice and forget all about it - you are completely wasting your time and headspace.

I'm married to a man who was raised in a selfmade wealthy family from a working class background. He has a typical middle class office job. Regarding myself, parents are self made wealthy (both coming from a middle class family). My family wasn't always rich or well educated for that matter but I do have a biography of one of my direct ancestors because of his significant role in a certain part of history.
So what am I? Part of a family that got downgraded trough history to ~ the horror ~ very ordinary middle class? Or working class because it's my DH's family background and we are married? Where do you draw the line? Btw I do think that people who are very certain of themselves belonging to a social class can emigrate to anywhere in the world and would still be confident about who they are and where they came from.

For example with my MIL she once made a comment that she wouldn't understand why would anyone move out of the UK/to other countries I didn't find her comment offensive but definitely odd considering I was there.

My MIL is like that, too. She doesn't "see the point in foreign food " (her words) and used to ask me why I had to be different. Being different didn't mean being a fussy or awkward guest in her house, it meant not being C of E, it meant slipping unconsciously into my mother tongue when talking to my parents, it meant talking 'posh'. I'm not sure what my ILs struggled with more: my being vaguely foreign, or my being from a different part of the UK to them, or my appearing posh to them. I think religion was the icing on the cake!

FWIW we've built a reasonable relationship after a very rocky start, they are good grandparents, we still think each other weird but get on well.

It doesn't matter OP.

You're foreign, that's it.

Forget the Class system and just live your life, much easier:)

@Marchitectmummy

You wouldn't be part of the class system if you was not born in the UK, its still largely hereditary and based in more than wealth. There is more transience between working to middle class than ever before and is largely interchangeable within a generation, but upper class does not alter.

This really isn’t true. It certainly puzzles people if they perceive you as combining what would in a UK person be ‘clashing’ class markers, or you do not fit with their preconceived ideas about your nationality, but I think class is so unconsciously ingrained in most British people that they attempt to classify you in social terms automatically.

We’re both not from the UK, and because of the nature of DH’s job, the inhabitants of the English village to which we moved from another English city had certain preconceptions about us before we arrived. We of course had no idea, but looking back now, it makes sense.

It certainly puzzles people if they perceive you as combining what would in a UK person be ‘clashing’ class markers

This is very true, from my observation. The class markers themselves can be amusing to me. Someone posted a list in another thread insisting 'this is how you know' and I could clearly see how different people can weave through the different 'have to's of a class and my question (in my mind) was: "what would that make them then"?

But mums in general I've never been able to make any friends whatsoever.

Have you ever considered why this might be? Or would you prefer to believe that it’s to do with your parents wealth and the local mums love of rose gold, glitter and reality shows?

I immigrated on a spousal visa, so I guess that makes me a 'non-economic migrant' (though quality of life was definitely a factor). I assumed that was a way to say you didn't immigrate on a work visa (there are people of all classes who've done that, especially those of us who got in before the income requirement) and are trying to avoid the Daily Mail types that like to go on about the issues economic migrant/refugees cause.

I've had Brits like that stand in front of me and pretty much rank people in class by assumed country of origin. Others will do it on your spouse, your other family members, what if any uni you went to, your job. My DD1 had someone in her class describe the class of people based on how they'd wrapped their Secret Santa gifts. How people perceive you will depend on the context and their own ideas. In most situations, it doesn't matter. I have people think I'm all sorts background wise, but very few get into class. I do agree with pp that we're often just othered in that regard.

Also, immigrants who call themselves expats feel to me like they're either trying to say they don't really view the UK as their home which some find off-putting and/or that they want to make sure everyone knows they aren't like those immigrants you hear about. I have found over the years other immigrant parents and I end up together in confusion at events with our children, shared amusement at very British things that we don't entirely get, but I'd find it very awkward and odd if someone called themself an expat in that situation and pretty annoyed if they tried to call all of us including me 'expats'. I'm an expat to my country of origin sometimes (legally, they just classified as abroad rather than expatriated), in the UK - where I chose to immigrate - I'm an immigrant. I don't like when people try to dance around that word for me, like it's a bad thing when I've spent a lot of time, money, and energy to choose to spend half my life here and now sit in the backlog of citizenship ceremonies.

Obviously my life here is vastly different to what I grew up in, but I know for certain I don't have to worry about retirement and that bank of mum and dad will always have my back. That o was classically trained in piano and went to expensive private schools. I still care about the finer things in life.

Gosh, I didn't realise that not having access to wealthy parents or private education meant I was constrained to a cultural diet of soaps and reality shows.

Yes, as a foreigner I can confirm that presenting what appears to be conflicting class markers can be confusing. But by the sounds of it, you're just as rigid in your attitude to class markers as anybody else, OP.

Our of interest (I'm very pro immigration BTW) how did yiu end up here of not an economic migrant? Were you a refugee/ leaving conflict.

I think it depends what you define class as. I live in a very affluent area, when I'm working full time I'm well over £100k but I was raised working class and that's how I see myself, but if I went home I would be seen as really posh. It's just different perspectives.

If you don't have housekeepers etc here I doubt you could be called upper class!

If I was you I'd try to find common ground with the other mums, it might surprise you

@Plussizejumpsuit, surely it doesn't take a vast amount of imagination to think of other reasons somebody might have immigrated?

I myself came from a more affluent country, but immigrated on marriage.

Reasons that made us settle for this country included: I had an interest in studying particular aspects of British culture, dh's parents were much older and he had fewer siblings to share support with, dh's skills were less transferable, and (probably the most important) I was better at languages so would find it easier to adapt.

Truth is you're middle class, they are the only group that gives a fuck or even notices

You'd almost think a series of (or maybe just one) journalist had a brief to write an article on child bearing age women and the class system given the number of threads on the subject in the past 3 or 4 days.
Have you tried reading any of those OP? There are quite a few.
HTH.

Also, immigrants who call themselves expats feel to me like they're either trying to say they don't really view the UK as their home which some find off-putting and/or that they want to make sure everyone knows they aren't like those immigrants you hear about

Or they want to do the same thing British people do, not that they really take themselves seriously as one or the other. Who cares what I am really? I certainly don't.

I would ask though if you think the same thing of British immigrants who call themselves expats or is it only those who come to the UK you have a problem with, as that is the issue with the 'expat/immigrant' situation?

Never met someone who didn't care to be called an immigrant except some British people in other countries (who clearly are, I must add). I understand our experiences will vary.

[quote corythatwas]@Plussizejumpsuit, surely it doesn't take a vast amount of imagination to think of other reasons somebody might have immigrated?

I myself came from a more affluent country, but immigrated on marriage.

Reasons that made us settle for this country included: I had an interest in studying particular aspects of British culture, dh's parents were much older and he had fewer siblings to share support with, dh's skills were less transferable, and (probably the most important) I was better at languages so would find it easier to adapt.[/quote]
So you're not making a better life here then? Don't know why you're so butt hurt about my question.

So you're not making a better life here then? Don't know why you're so butt hurt about my question.

Because you seemed to be suggesting that the only reasons for someone to be an immigrant was that they were trying to escape something in their own country (whether poverty or conflict).

Not that there is anything wrong with either of those reasons, but plenty of people do move to the UK, like Brits move abroad, for family reasons or because they like it. The world is not divided into Brits who do things one way and foreigners who all do things another way.

Is OP genuine? I thought so until I read the bit about rose gold...