Not Economic Immigrants and the British class system

[Fressia123]

I know this probably has been done and nauseam but it still intrigues me. Where do immigrants fit into the the British class system? And I don't mean the type that end up here because they're looking for a better life but rather because they married a Brit. Do they inherit their spouses' class?

Where I'm from I'm upper middle/ upper class. People think I'm a snob but it's not like I can erase my upbringing.
The other day I visited my SIL and felt stupid to mention my DMs housekeeper and gardener (it was within context). I sometimes have to clarify that by "nanny" I mean that and not my grandmother.

Obviously my life here is vastly different to what I grew up in, but I know for certain I don't have to worry about retirement and that bank of mum and dad will always have my back. That o was classically trained in piano and went to expensive private schools. I still care about the finer things in life.

So bottom line would I be working class like my DP or middle/upper that I was born in?

Not sure why you're giving it so much thought really. You do sound a bit snobby, and mentioning your family's servants won't help. I'd see that as a bit desperate to impress. I don't think that we in the UK give all that much thought to what class we're in, as a rule.

I don’t watch soaps or reality shows. That doesn’t prove anything. I’m pure working class.

@ExpatInBritain

Non-economic migrant? You mean expat?

I don't see any British person calling themselves or anyone they know in another country a 'non-economic migrant'. Not even an 'economic migrant', even when they've admitted to going there for a 'better life' (bigger house, better wages, nicer lifestyle. Isn't that what immigrants are chasing too?). They're all expats. That's what you are too, m'dear.

Well, I think what is meant by non-economic migrant is that a person moves countries for reasons other than seek better quality of life. Interestingly, although brits would not call themselves as such in similar circumstances, I have heard the term used over here in media and in common use when talking about immigration in general. Double standards ?

Class isn't a caste system you are born into. You would come with the class you were generally socialised into in your home country mixed with where you fit economically, socially and culturally in the UK. It would be trickier to be properly old money upper class as other countries don't necessarily have similar, though they do obviously have upper classes, though the cultural signifiers would be slightly different and less obvious. I'm solidly middle class in my home country and I am the same here. Dh is also very middle class. Some of the social and cultural aspects are different in our two countries, but once you live here long enough, you are probably spending time with people who are similar enough to you (your dh, work colleagues, friends in hobbies you do, etc.), so you pick up local ways of doing things which end up being class signifiers.

It was definitely not to impress. She asked me how my folks were and I said that my DM was used to not going out but that the housekeeper kept her company and that she asked to wear a facemask which I wouldn't have done.

My DP knows them by name, so it's easier in that way when I talk about them but with my SIL is a bit different.

@Fressia123

I am an expat (I've actually said that in the thread). But I moved countries for marriage not for work.

Also, I'm not entirely sure if it's that I'm just too "other". I sound very American, but I'm also a mix of cultures and religion. So I get that I look/sound/behave different (aside from class) but not sure if it's class or background related.

Don't care about class but ime, I think if you're trying to integrate with working class (a lot of whom suffer from reverse snobbery and can't stand middle or upper class), you'll find it difficult with most unless you meet some who really don't care (In a 'you're who you are, it doesn't matter to me. I'm who I am' type of way and not a 'I'm jealous of you but I'll change it to hatred and accuse you of being pretentious, snobby, trying to impress, etc any chance I get' type of way most behave).

Secondly, you're generally 'other' if you look and/or sound different and not considered in any British class system unless you clearly mix with the elites of British society, which would make you an upper class forriner.

Oh you so were signalling that you consider yourself higher class than them in that example 😂😂😂😂

Well, I think what is meant by non-economic migrant is that a person moves countries for reasons other than seek better quality of life

I know what was meant. Was being facetious. Point still stands though.

Yes, that’s a fair point from @ExpatInBritain — who exactly are you trying to ‘integrate’ with? What social classes are you primarily mixing with?

Interestingly, although brits would not call themselves as such in similar circumstances, I have heard the term used over here in media and in common use when talking about immigration in general. Double standards ?

Yes, always is. It's why I like to point it out.

I think they're all working class. With a few middle (who I do get along with although not friends per se). But the vast majority of the village/school is working class.

They're part of the "Hun brigade" (that's what my DP calls them).

There's your problem then, if I may hazard a guess.

To integrate, you must keep any mention of anything that signifies middle class/upper to the barest minimum, non-existent preferably. Don't want insecurities flying about (whether yours or theirs).

@Fressia123

They're part of the "Hun brigade" (that's what my DP calls them).

What does he mean by that?

And — if it’s not too intrusive a question — what brought you together with your working-class British DH if you clearly find other WC British people alien and difficult to integrate with? And what was appealing to you about going to live in an entirely WC village? Did you say you have children?

To be fair, I doubt it's the OP who finds it difficult to mix because she thinks she's better or different or whatever else, rather WC people (in general, obviously not all) who find it near impossible to openly accept a non-working class in the fold.

TBF, each class of people does the same thing, which is why people generally mix with fellow "class-groups".

I’d say your current class is based on how you currently live. So while you were upper middle class, you are now working class.

The only exception is if you have an aristocratic title from your home country.

Yea we have DC and this is where he lived so we stayed. He's fairly class blind and blends into different social situations. He's also the most beautiful and loving man I've ever met so in that way it was a no brainer. He says I'm definitely different and will find it hard to fit in with the other mums. BTW "HUN" is the type that loves glitter / rose gold/ and messages around their homes like "eat, pray, love".

I think you have to disentangle being foreign from differences in class.

I would say what class you are now depends upon how you and your husband live now. Not on your parents. Where do you live? What do you consume? How are your children educated? How do you spend your free time, etc. Where do you get your news etc.

You wouldn't be part of the class system if you was not born in the UK, its still largely hereditary and based in more than wealth. There is more transience between working to middle class than ever before and is largely interchangeable within a generation, but upper class does not alter.

We live in an average house (partly bought by my parents). DC don't go to private schools because I didn't see the point although my parents offered to pay. After meeting a mum whose kids go to the local private school I might change my mind for the baby. We do our shopping depending what we're buying.. News I read the BBC and sometimes the French press.

What do you mean by ‘proper old money’?

By “integrate” do you mean “make friends”? From your posts you do come across as rather obsessed with class and snobby so I can see why you would find it hard to fit in.
Plus I have found that Americans have a totally different sense of humour to brits and that may be causing you trouble. Do you find it hard to self deprecate?
I’m a Brit in Aus and have friends from both Australia and other ex pats (sorry, non economic migrants ) and in some ways I find it easier to make friends with other expats and I do often click more with other brits but I think that’s because of shared cultural markers like music, tv etc. I also don’t have any interest in sport or reality tv and know nothing about Australian famous people other than those who are also famous in the U.K.

I would suggest just getting to know people, watch some U.K. tv shows to have similar references (Father Ted is a good start) and maybe dial down on the “I’m so fancy and upper class and old money” and just be friendly and normal.

And look, I’m firmly middle class and even I know I would struggle to fit in a bit in a fully WC area, but I would make an effort.
I have similar to a poster above where in Aus, being mildly Home Counties well spoken I’m considered posh here but in the U.K. I would certainly be slap bang in MC territory and not posh in the slightest.

He says I'm definitely different and will find it hard to fit in with the other mums. BTW "HUN" is the type that loves glitter / rose gold/ and messages around their homes like "eat, pray, love".

DC don't go to private schools because I didn't see the point although my parents offered to pay. After meeting a mum whose kids go to the local private school I might change my mind for the baby

You sound delightful, OP.

I'm not sure what class you perceive yourself to be, but you're issue is your being judgemental and narrow minded, not class.

You’re French? That’s interesting. My French mother is more class obsessed than any British person I know, it seriously seems to affect all her interactions with others in a way that I’ve never seen with anyone else.