British class system

[fandigo]

I've watched enough British telly to get the difference between working, middle and upper class but then i read on here about 'upper middle class'.. what's that? And is there a lower middle class and a medium middle class? Does this then apply to the other classes. So for example an "upper working class" or a "lower upper class"

I know it's a contentious topic on here because the Brits get accused of being obsessed with class (i disagree with that) but it would be interesting to hear what attributes people need to fit into the class within the class.

I could probably Wikipedia this 🤔

[quote fandigo]@SkepticalCat interesting article, thanks for that. I know it keeps anthropologists and researchers busy but you'd wonder what use the information is or why you'd need to know someone's class in day to day life.

Your plumber example is interesting because where i live (dublin), a self employed plumber can warn about €400 a day. So what might seem like a working class trade actually affords a very middle class lifestyle. [/quote]
Exactly, re: the plumber example. I think that's why this survey included social and cultural aspects as well as purely economic/by occupation:

"Class has traditionally been defined by occupation, wealth and education. But this research argues that this is too simplistic, suggesting that class has three dimensions - economic, social and cultural."

"...but you'd wonder what use the information is or why you'd need to know someone's class in day to day life."

We don't need to know someone's class on a day to day basis. And I guess the "use" of the information is to try to define something that is difficult to define.

You're sufficiently interested in the British class system to ask about it. Many other people, and researchers, are also very interested in the subject, hence this research.

Here’s my conception (warning not official, not an expert)

Upper class- people with aristocratic titles. Lord and Lady, Duchess, Countess. Etc. The lower upper class have the titles but no money.

Middle class- upper middle class- nouveau riche, money but no title/aristocratic blood. Middle middle class people with professions and postgraduate degrees enough money for private education and healthcare. Lower middle class people with professions and post graduate degree but less money, so buying a home in catchment for good grammar school.

Working class- two types- blue collar have trades and white collar have no degree or only a bachelors and are usually at worker bee or front line manager at most. Less money so local comp schools and NHS state healthcare only. Upper working class can get by with no top up benefits, lower working class need top up benefits- ie free school meals etc.

Pets are a giveaway. The upper class employ staff who look after their horses, whereas the working classes frequently own ferrets and live in terraced houses in housing estates troubled by packs of stray dogs. The middle classes fret about which designer dog breed to buy and can be seen walking in packs through national trust estates wearing Toast and Boden.

what's interesting about British class is the way all of the ''lower rungs'' buy in to the hierarchy.

In my country there is class and privilege but you won't find those midway fawning obsequiously over those at the top, or pretending that their dad wasn't a carpenter or pretending that they've always used this word not that word...... basically nobody else buys in to anything other than their own right to be wherever they can afford to 'sit' on the social hierarchy.

There's too much overlap and inconsistencies for there to be any kind of objective system any more.

Your high earning plumber is just as likely to go to the theatre as the teacher that earns half what he (or she) does. Likewise for any other 'class marker'.

For me middle class usually is made up of professional people, I might be wrong but lower middle class might be a teacher or lecturer and an upper middle class might be a lawyer or doctor and earn significantly more.
Lower middle class might still shop in Lidl and upper will shop on Waitrose.

Lower will generally use state school, upper public school.

Wearing Toast and Boden

OMG!

Toast is breakfast and Boden make.glass teapots, also for breakfast. What the hell have I missed?!?!

In addition to Jolly Cooper, you might try the Sloane Ranger Handbook.
Generally "class" has very little to do with money and everything to do with attitude towards various things.

It's just a way to stereotype and pigeon hole people based on prejudice.

Is your furniture handed down or bought?

What do you call the thing above the fire?

What are your rooms downstairs called?

How do you ask for salt at a dinner party?

I will tell you your class based on the answers you give. Gavel.

@fandigo

I was more expecting people to say "upper middle class people don't eat beans on toast whereas lower middle class do". I can't be arsed watching ancient YouTube clips or buying a book from Amazon.

And surely every single question anyone ever has could be found in an advanced search (don't know how to do that) but wouldn't that render Mumsnet obsolete?

Upper middle class people prbably do eat beans on toast and have a jolly good chuckle about how terribly bohemian they are. Middle middle/aspirational middle class people probably also eat beans on toast but might not be happy to admit to it. Lower middle class people also eat beans on toast. Loads of stereotyping gpoing on there, but this thread will be full of it - its kind of inevitable on this kind of subject. Although beans on toast probably isnt the best example because I think everyone eats those.

@verylittlepen I know that dogs can be an indicator of class here. A park nearby where i walk my dog is full of Staffies and pitbulls. If i got 3k the other direction to a more affluent area it's all golden retrievers and French bulldogs.

@BarbaraofSeville agree with that re: the overlap. From reading people's replies i can see myself represented in the 3 categories of middle class

@PlanDeRaccordement

Here’s my conception (warning not official, not an expert)

Upper class- people with aristocratic titles. Lord and Lady, Duchess, Countess. Etc. The lower upper class have the titles but no money.

Middle class- upper middle class- nouveau riche, money but no title/aristocratic blood. Middle middle class people with professions and postgraduate degrees enough money for private education and healthcare. Lower middle class people with professions and post graduate degree but less money, so buying a home in catchment for good grammar school.

Working class- two types- blue collar have trades and white collar have no degree or only a bachelors and are usually at worker bee or front line manager at most. Less money so local comp schools and NHS state healthcare only. Upper working class can get by with no top up benefits, lower working class need top up benefits- ie free school meals etc.

I'd agree with this too.

@Atalune

A mixture of bought (mostly IKEA) and a few things my mam was finished with.

The mantelpiece

Sitting room and living room

Could you pass the salt please?

Op- you are working class possibly lower middle

We definitely have working and middle class people here in Ireland and then "posh people" rather than "upper class. There are probably lords and ladies with manor houses somewhere but I'd never come into contact with them.

But i never thought about the classes within the classes. Agree the whole thing is a bit meaningless but someone used the Upper Middle Class phrase on a thread about boasting about your kids and it just piqued my interest

While people will say money is irrelevant I think the difference between middle and upper middle is cash tbh and wealth over a few generations. There is a huge difference in the lifestyle of the middle and upper middle.

Eg one of my old bosses is upper middle. V wealthy, lives in a £2m plus house in London, kids in private school all the way through, nice holidays. No-way is she having the same life as a teacher couple who would be classes as middle class.

@Tiquismiquis so it sounds like your ex boss has the money and lifestyle of upper class but is still considered middle class. Is this because you can't change class or more to do with cultural interests etc?

The upper class and true working class eat their beans cold from the tin because neither give a flying fuck about what others think of them.

@TheQueef

I'm working class from Yorkshire 🏆 thread winner

No, no, no, to win the thread you have to be working class from Lancashire

@PlanDeRaccordement

Where do you fit in if you went to private school, have a postgraduate degree and are a worker bee with children who receive free school meals?

To simplify it a lot:
Upper middle class own land (i.e. more than just their house) and have connections with the aristocracy (however distant).
Middle middle class are basically university educated, professionals but with no large land holdings .
Lower middle class are basically working class but don't do physical labour or get their hands dirty.
Jilly Cooper's "Class" explains it all and gives a load of very funny examples!

Somebody said the quickest way to tell working class from lower middle is that the working class stand up to do their jobs when they're at work, whereas the lower middle class sit down to do theirs.