AIBU - friends pay?!

[TrousersTea]

NC as worried I might be recognised as this is quite specific. My close friend has recently been promoted. It’s a job shes worked hard in and it’s deserved. Because of Covid though, she’s not getting the pay rise she expected. During a zoom call with her today she commented that she would have to make other plans to try and pay more of the mortgage off now as things are not looking as good as she thought they would at this level in her job. I know that she was previously on 65k so it will have gone up slightly from this, probably more like 68 rather than the 75 she was wanting. We both live in the midlands/north so it’s not like she’s paying London prices.

I don’t want to sound bitchy but this comment has made me annoyed. She lives alone and I live with my partner but even together we earn only slightly more than her! We don’t even live in as nice a house. AIBU here or missing something about living alone?! I feel like it was quite insensitive, I’m the lower earner in our house and couldn’t even imagine earning 50k let alone close to 70, which she knows.

I echo what @ISeeTheLight and @Idontgiveagriffindamn said - in reality, she’s probably taking home about £45k, as she’s in a higher tax band, which might work out about the same or less than you and your partner. It might sound a lot, but she’s presumably then solely responsible for all her outgoings - not to mention that she might feel she’s not being appropriately compensated for the increased work she’s doing. That kind of salary tends to attract increased expectations of unpaid overtime / being on the clock 24:7, and the amount actually paid per hour could look quite rubbish if you totted it up.

I understand the point about being aware of who she’s talking to, but you are her friend and I don’t think she’s being unreasonable to talk to you about it.

You don’t sound like a good friend. She has a right to be disappointed and chat about that to a friend.

I don’t think it’s crass at all. She had plans for he salary bump, it didn’t pan out and she is venting to someone she thought was a friend.

You are comfortably off, what does it matter if she earns more than you? Can she not express her feelings and discuss her plans with you?

I don't think there was anything rude or "crass" about it: she thinks she is among friends and can have a little gripe at not getting the pay rise normally commensurate with the role.

You are obviously unhappy being "trapped" in your job- have you confided in her about the issue at all? Regardless of whether you've complained about feeling underpaid or not, it's really your problem to solve. It's unfair to project your dissatisfaction onto your friend.

AIBU here or missing something about living alone?!

Yes, it’s all on her. No one to share the burden of responsibility with. If she loses her job she loses her house. She sounds very sensible to me.

"Suppose so, it just seems like a huge salary to someone like me, trapped in a 25k job!"

You’re not trapped though, are you? You can upskill or put the effort into education to gain a better job

@ZenNudist

You seem to know too much about her finances. If she is telling you this then she lacks discretion and it's frankly not very classy. I've never told friends what I earn. Is it insensitive? Maybe. But if you're good friends maybe she felt she could whinge at you. I think its reasonable to tell you about having a promotion but shitty pay rise. If she works hard and her job is her life then it's likely to be very important to her. I think if she's told you amounts and what her house is worth and how much shes paid off her mortgage then that's insensitive and crass.

If she is on her own, maybe she just wants someone to chat things through with?

Couples talk to each other about these things.

Single people don’t have this luxury. Maybe she just thought this lady was a better friend than she is.

I am single and tell my sister these details.

Not to pile on you, OP, but might be worth remembering that she'll actually be taking home a fair bit less than you and your DP take home because the two of you have two personal allowances to use (on which you pay no tax) and pay tax on the rest at a lower rate than her because you're assessed individually so each fall into a lower tax bracket. So, very roughly (and without taking NI, pensions etc. into the mix), you and your DP each earning £35k goes:

£12,500 each - not taxed = 25k after tax
£22,500 each - 20% tax = 36k after tax
= your income after tax: £61k
Your household pays £9k tax.

She only has one personal allowance to use (so already pays tax on approx 12k more than your household does) and her 'household' income will be subject to a higher tax rate because it's assessed by itself and exceeds the threshold for the higher rate (50k). So if she were earning £70k:

£12,500 - not taxed = £12,500 after tax
£37,500 - 20% tax = £30k after tax
£20,000 - 40% tax = £12k after tax
= Her income after tax: £54,500.
Her 'household' pays £15,500 tax.

Neither household is exactly on poverty wages but she's actually worse off than you on straight taxed income, and a payrise to £75k wouldn't actually even bring her level with your household, so don't feel too hard done by!

You did ask if you were missing anything!

At those salaries tax is more and she may of taken on more responsibility for very little reward .
I was also recently promoted to head of team and my salary increased by £400 per month which sounds great. But I lost child benefit if £180 so for £220 extra a month I know have all the responsibilities and need to manage a team of 6. I know seem to be working an extra 1 to 2 hrs a day to get all the work done and look after the team. It doesn't seem worth it to me but I know my salary will increase so in the long run it's good

I don't begrudge my friends' successes. I think the chip's on your shoulder.

Aside from comparison being the thief of joy, sempre vulnerable than you. She's entitled to earn well and to think her mates aren't going to be weird about her disappointment.

Or should she stay in her place and get a man on £40k?

it just seems like a huge salary to someone like me, trapped in a 25k job!

You aren’t trapped, you have options, you just need to find them.

Just seen you're on £25k, with must mean your DP is on roughly £45k.

As he still hasn't hit the higher rate of tax bracket (£50k) all the maths below still applies to the same totals.

YABU and bitter

Maybe she thought she was talking to a friend who cared about her, would sympathise that her promotion did not bring with it the usual financial rewards it would in normal times. Also you do realise that she does not get a similar take home to the both of you as you both have the tax free allowance and she has only the one, you both also have the lower rate income tax whereas she gets taxed nore at a higher rate. Thus your income is much more than you realise than hers plus she only has herself to rely on.

You just sound jealous.

Do people actually tell friends and family what they earn? My family know I do ok but I dont tell friends. I earn more than quite a lot of my friends so I try and keep it quiet.

No one tells me what they earn.

So we should only be friends with people who earn exactly the same amount as ourselves? You see that’s the logical conclusion of your taking offence, right?

I have a millionaire mate. He is definitely allowed to moan to me about things that are relevant to his life and pay grade, even if it’s not mine (by a hefty margin!). I might occasionally think ‘Cripes, what a problem to have!’ if he’s going on about a luxury aspect of his life, but I’d never say it or carry a grudge, or be cross that he’s being insensitive.

The fundamental difference between you & I, OP, is that when I’m talking to a friend ITS NOT ABOUT ME.

I’m inclined to ask whether it’s her responsibility that you earn less?

I have friends who earn more than me, usually because they are cleverer, better qualified and worked harder.

@ZenNudist

Do people actually tell friends and family what they earn? My family know I do ok but I dont tell friends. I earn more than quite a lot of my friends so I try and keep it quiet.

No one tells me what they earn.

Do you have a husband or partner. Do you know what he/she earns?

Why can’t single people talk about their finances

@TrainspottingWelsh

Everything *@Monkeypeas* said. Do you resent your dh earning upwards of £15k more than you do or is it just single females you feel this way about?

So this.

It sounds like your bitter about your friends success. Generally that level salary comes with a lot of responsibility and hard work so she's probably a bit disappointed with the amount of pay for the additional work compared to what it was a year ago.

I don't think it's insensitive she was just discussing her life. She will also get taxed more as she's over the 40% threshold.

Just be happy for your friends promotion it's not her fault if you feel trapped in a job.

@AnneLovesGilbert

She’s not complaining, she was having a chat with her “friend”. You’re not in poverty either, not on 25k and especially not with a combined income of more than hers. Do you think you’re insensitive posting how well off you are when some people on here inevitably earn less than you?

Count your blessings. And if you don’t like her stop pretending to be her friend. I’d be livid if one of my friends was slagging me off on a forum.

100% this! I live on my own - would be SO happy to be earning £25k and having a partner's salary also. Get a grip

There are two of you earning more, what’s your issue, when you heat a house, turn on an oven, light bulb etc it doesn’t cost less because there is only one of you. She’s sharing a disappointment with you because she thinks you are a friend. That’s what friends do.

@TrousersTea

Nope she has paid off half her mortgage and house worth nearly double ours! I just thought given she knows our situation it was a bit of a crass comment. I’m clearly wrong about that based on this thread though !!

It doesn't seem like you really have a 'situation' for her to know about though?

I'd agree with you if you had lost your job or had other unfortunate circumstances in your life, but it sounds like you also have a very good household income.

My DH’s got extra duties last year and a salary rise of 3k ( before tax). It was eaten by taxes quite a lot because he’s about the same salary as your friend but the extra duties were like basically one third of his usual duties. He survived as it was temporarily but it put a lot a pressure on us as a family.
Unfortunately it’s often happen higher title at some level involves more work, more responsibility, more stress, higher tax brackets and no access to benefits.
E.g. there was an issue we needed to sort out with the house urgently and we employed people just because DH had no time (he could do this and even better tbh) so the cost ate all pay rise and even more. So it’s all not so simple.

Sorry OP, you come across to me like you're jealous of her.