Why is everyone referring to "Santa"

[WinWinnieTheWay]

DH and I (from different UK countries and different social class) were both brought up with Father Christmas. Why are so many people calling FC "Santa" these days? Is it just the impact of American culture? Each to their own, but I don't like it.

@Dadaist

The popular culture figure ‘Santa’ is American - I think because he’s not ‘Santa Clause’ aka ‘St Nicolas’. And obvs it’s not ‘Father Christmas’ due to the name change. St Nicolas was an actual saint. ‘Santa’ takes the first (Latin) name of Santa Clause (St Nicolas) combined with a mythical figure - more commonly known in England as ‘Father Christmas’ who lives in the North Pole and drives a flying herd of reindeer.

So while Santa Claus is European Catholic (inc Ireland and parts of west Scotland)...’Santa’ is definitely an American popular culture introduced as a hybrid of St Nicolas (Santa Claus) and Father Christmas.
What people refer to in their families depends on their family history- catholic - more likely to say Santa Claus - only shortened to ‘Santa’. But once he’s living with elves in the North Pole - he’s not St Nicolas - he’s Santa!

If you’re Protestant UK (England, predominantly) you’re more likely to say Father Christmas- avoiding association with catholic St Nicolas, but still a nod to our pagan past.

I always understood that Father Christmas lives in Lapland - which makes more sense because the North Pole is inhospitable and there aren’t any reindeer there - but not so Lapland.
I think I’ve fixed it?

Nope.

Im church of ireland and he was Santa to me.

But i suppose i am culturally roman catholic even if i am actually anglican catholic.

Nobody in ireland gives a $h1t what anybody else calls santa tho.

One of the best things about irelsnd is that nobody cares what you call your mother, what you ssy when you dont hear...
We know there are class markers but we dont have notions

Phew

@Dadaist

The popular culture figure ‘Santa’ is American - I think because he’s not ‘Santa Clause’ aka ‘St Nicolas’. And obvs it’s not ‘Father Christmas’ due to the name change. St Nicolas was an actual saint. ‘Santa’ takes the first (Latin) name of Santa Clause (St Nicolas) combined with a mythical figure - more commonly known in England as ‘Father Christmas’ who lives in the North Pole and drives a flying herd of reindeer.

So while Santa Claus is European Catholic (inc Ireland and parts of west Scotland)...’Santa’ is definitely an American popular culture introduced as a hybrid of St Nicolas (Santa Claus) and Father Christmas.
What people refer to in their families depends on their family history- catholic - more likely to say Santa Claus - only shortened to ‘Santa’. But once he’s living with elves in the North Pole - he’s not St Nicolas - he’s Santa!

If you’re Protestant UK (England, predominantly) you’re more likely to say Father Christmas- avoiding association with catholic St Nicolas, but still a nod to our pagan past.

I always understood that Father Christmas lives in Lapland - which makes more sense because the North Pole is inhospitable and there aren’t any reindeer there - but not so Lapland.
I think I’ve fixed it?

Wrong sorry UK Protestant here family including great grandparents have all called him Santa . As did everyone at my primary school including all the teachers. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Episcopalian in a sea of church of Scotland and Methodists... santa/santy

If you’re Protestant UK (England, predominantly) you’re more likely to say Father Christmas- avoiding association with catholic St Nicolas,

He's at least as much an Eastern Orthodox saint as a catholic one, predating the schism , a Greek from Asia Minor. Pretty similar, in fact, to St George, who the English don't seem to object to in the slightest.

Episcopalian in a sea of church of Scotland and Methodists... santa/santy

Snap

It's Santa my wee Mammy told me so 😂🎅.

In all seriousness both my grandmothers called him Santa on was born in 1900 the other 1911. Both came from extremely rural areas in NI so there was no American influences there. One COI and the other Presbyterian.

@ErrolTheDragon - he might even have been Eastern Orthodox first I guess?

@Peppafrig - really haven’t burst my bubble - I suggest more likely to - not certain to. Could be any number of reasons why one tradition is passed down in families.

And I don’t care - it’s just interesting!

Father Christmas was the most used term when I was growing up in the 1960s. However, I was aware that he was sometimes called Santa Claus and St Nicholas, so those were definitely in use at the time.
I wonder whether Santa Claus was perhaps introduced to the UK by the Americans during the war?

@80sMum read the thread . Wasn’t introduced by the Americans in the slightest . Infact been called that in the UK long long before the war.

@80sMum

Father Christmas was the most used term when I was growing up in the 1960s. However, I was aware that he was sometimes called Santa Claus and St Nicholas, so those were definitely in use at the time. I wonder whether Santa Claus was perhaps introduced to the UK by the Americans during the war?

It wasn’t. I was born in the ‘60s, and even my grandparents, born in around 1904, used the word Santa.

1 The Irish say mummy instead of mum. Not fair to criticise cultural differences.

2 We definitely don't say Mummy. You'd be laughed at! It's Mammy for little kids and Mam for everyone else, or Mommy/Mom.

Whatnow?

Some of the Irish say Mummy and some say Mammy all their lives, most shorten those two to Mum or Mam eventually. There is also Ma. I have never heard anyone saying Mommy or Mom who wasn't American. Is it a NI thing?

• Also, Americans call football soccer to distinguish it from what is known as football in the US (aka American Football outside the US).

@Dadaist while broadly I agree, I disagree about your point on Scotland. Santa has always generally used here regardless of religious affiliation. I was musing further up thread about whether this was to do with the connections with the Flemish combined with the banning of Christmas here post-reformation. Protestants didn’t need a character for something they didn’t celebrate leading Santa to be the main name in use by the time it gained mainstream popularity again in the past 2 centuries.

I'm pagan. I don't say Father Christmas. He's nothing to do with Christ. He's the Holly King. So we call him Santa in this house and it's not a class thing here.

@mathanxiety

1 The Irish say mummy instead of mum. Not fair to criticise cultural differences.

2 We definitely don't say Mummy. You'd be laughed at! It's Mammy for little kids and Mam for everyone else, or Mommy/Mom.

Whatnow?

Some of the Irish say Mummy and some say Mammy all their lives, most shorten those two to Mum or Mam eventually. There is also Ma. I have never heard anyone saying Mommy or Mom who wasn't American. Is it a NI thing?

• Also, Americans call football soccer to distinguish it from what is known as football in the US (aka American Football outside the US).

@mathanxiety people in the West Midlands say mom.

@jerometheturnipking - I think you could be right about Scotland - Puritans and Presbyterians disliked saints and paganism! Perhaps equally. And festivals!
But m sure the pagan folklore of the old Celtic Christian church retained a lot of pagan symbolism. So strange, (or maybe not) that a non-catholic reverence for fairies and folklore and pagan traditions didn’t survive the reformation in Scotland. I don’t know.

As a child it was always Father Christmas. Now i use both names.

Aha!

Maybe a direct transliteration from the Irish 'Mamaí'.

I have never heard anyone saying Mommy or Mom who wasn't American. Is it a NI thing?

I’m NI and my mum and siblings all call their mum mommy but they spell it “Mammy” when writing it down. They would refer to other people’s Mommy too. “How’s your Mommy doing?” I switch between mummy and mommy. I think depending on who I’m speaking to and whether they say mummy or mommy to their own mum. It’s not uncommon here.

Always been Santa Claus in Scotland.

Crazy how different cultures have different names eh!

Mom and mam are NE aren’t they? I always thought my granny’s name was mam as everyone called her that.

@ThatIsNotMyUsername No, Mam is NE, Mom is Birmingham and the black country.

Mum used to call her mum both (Newcastle).