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Original poster

Why is everyone referring to "Santa"

795 replies

WinWinnieTheWay · 08/12/2020 20:30

DH and I (from different UK countries and different social class) were both brought up with Father Christmas. Why are so many people calling FC "Santa" these days? Is it just the impact of American culture? Each to their own, but I don't like it.

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Muckish · 09/12/2020 23:01

@Goldenbear

With that line of thought are you honestly saying nobody ever refers to people as having strong accents (wherever they live) as if you are I think you are being disingenuous and actually you are the one applying good/bad value to something not me.
Yes, of course, but the people who think the only other people have ‘strong accents’ are self-deluding, as RP is just as much an accent as any other way of speaking, but one marked by social class more than region. From the POV of, say, a group of working-class Liverpudlians, or speakers of Estuary English, the RP speaker is the one with the ‘strong accent’.
Goldenbear · 09/12/2020 23:08

But contemporary RP is thought of as quite a standard accent- I am not a linguist but presumably it is to do with how many people understand what is being said, I really don't know. Perhaps look up one of the many articles that talk about this. I don't have an RP accent but I have quite few friends that do.

LightDrizzle · 09/12/2020 23:08

Father Christmas growing up in Yorkshire I the 1970s and ‘80s but I think Santa is now more common in the same area.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

Christmas Events & celebrations
Dadaist · 09/12/2020 23:11

@ImNotMeImSomeoneElse 🤣 🤣
Well - in spite of the Christain takeover - I’m sticking with the pagan origins- fairies, elves, magic evergreen plants and trees, mid-winter snow, feasting, merry festival.

I think it says a lot that, even after thousands of years, it hasn’t been suppressed, and is adopted and re-explained by Christianity, by Capitalism and by popular culture.

midnightstar66 · 09/12/2020 23:15

But contemporary RP is thought of as quite a standard accent-

Standard to where? A patch of the mid south of England? It still varies between towns/ areas. It's not a standard accident in Liverpool or in Bristol or hull

Goldenbear · 09/12/2020 23:18

My Mum is originally from the Midlands but you can't really tell as her accent doesn't identify her as belonging to a particular region of the UK I'd say that is an example of neutrality. I was brought up in London and nobody knew she was born in the Midlands but she certainly didn't have a London accent so where does that leave her - I'd say with a fairly neutral accent. I don't really see it as offensive, I see it as a statement of fact.

wellthatsunusual · 09/12/2020 23:22

I'm from N Ireland but most people who meet me think I'm Scottish (including Scottish people). So would I have a neutral accent, since people aren't able to work out where I'm from based on my speech?

I don't think I do, but it fits the description.

Peppafrig · 09/12/2020 23:24

@wellthatsunusual I’m the opposite of you I’m Scottish and always get mistaken for being Irish .

Goldenbear · 09/12/2020 23:24

Like I said I'm not a Linguist so I don't know enough about it to say it with absolute conviction. I do think if nobody can identify where you are from in the UK, you probably have a neutral accent.

midnightstar66 · 09/12/2020 23:27

So essentially anyone with any accent can have no accent based on your logic @Goldenbear ? Not just the south of England

Scarby9 · 09/12/2020 23:29

I am almost 60 and have received a box of sweets every Christmas of my life with a gift label saying 'love from Santa Claus". No American connections. Just Wales and England.

Goldenbear · 09/12/2020 23:30

Well, no it doesn't fit the description as people identify your accent as being 'scottish' even if they are wrong they have attributed your accent to a location.

Goldenbear · 09/12/2020 23:33

Well yes you can speak in a neutral accent from anywhere in the country but there probably is a bias towards the south. That is to do with density of population as well though.

wellthatsunusual · 09/12/2020 23:34

Doesn't that contradict your previous statement? I'm lost now to be honest.

Barkspawn · 09/12/2020 23:44

@Goldenbear

Well, no it doesn't fit the description as people identify your accent as being 'scottish' even if they are wrong they have attributed your accent to a location.
But an RP accent is quite clearly English.
Turolive · 09/12/2020 23:47

Its gone from no accent, to a neutral accent, to any accent...

PatriciaPerch · 09/12/2020 23:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

daisypond · 09/12/2020 23:52

@Goldenbear

Well yes you can speak in a neutral accent from anywhere in the country but there probably is a bias towards the south. That is to do with density of population as well though.
What you’re describing as a neutral accent I would say is a general southern accent - Just as you can describe a general northern accent. Within those there are lots of subcategories.
Goldenbear · 10/12/2020 00:53

Yes, you are right to point out that I moved from no açcent to neutral accent but Im all honesty that is an argument in semantics as I meant that you can't place the accent with a non accent it is neutral. I was using contemporary RP to describe the closest thing IMO to a neutral accent. 'Traditional' RP is not neutral. I didn't say any accent I said you can have a neutral accent from anywhere in the country and used my Mum as an example.

Peppafrig · 10/12/2020 01:04

But to those not living in England ie the rest of the UK wouldn’t call that accent neutral they would say it was an English accent .

ProudAuntie76 · 10/12/2020 01:08

I’ve never read such a load of tosh as all this no accent/neutral accent/RP/LondonRP/ContemporaryRP/neutral if you can’t tell where you are from but only if you are English nonsense.

RP, contemporary RP, is not a neutral accent. I’d say Kristin Scott Thomas, Emma Thompson, Trevor McDonald etc are all “contemporary” RP speakers. They don’t sound neutral to me. Their accent gives away the fact they are Southern, their class and social status etc.

I could call a general North Wales accent neutral if I felt like it because I don’t “hear” it as it’s what I’m surrounded by. But it’s not neutral. It’s just what I’m used to hearing.

I’d agree with a PP the “strong” accent comment is usually bandied about by people who are London centric and dislike regional accents in general. Meanwhile, those of us in the regions quite often think it’s them who have strong, grating accents.

Takethereigns · 10/12/2020 01:10

@Goldenbear

Well, no it doesn't fit the description as people identify your accent as being 'scottish' even if they are wrong they have attributed your accent to a location.
In your examples I would identify it as an English accent. So would be attributing it to a location. So it doesn’t fit your description.
mathanxiety · 10/12/2020 01:33

Goldenbear

Well yes you can speak in a neutral accent from anywhere in the country but there probably is a bias towards the south. That is to do with density of population as well though

Are you talking about what I would call an English accent?

It's not neutral. There is no such thing.

Goldenbear · 10/12/2020 01:46

ProudAuntie76, Trevor McDonald grew up in Trinidad and don't think he had a particularly privileged upbringing so this kind of proves my point you have not been able to identify where he is from because his accent is neutral.

Also you are quick to use the lazy 'London centric' stereotype to deride a city of people whose population is greater than the whole of Scotland for example so I'm not sure if you can make such sweeping generalisations about what people think in London. In PP you said that you refer to Santa because you are a Christian and Father Christmas is just 'No'. You do realise that many people of different religions in the UK are not Christian but still celebrate or mark Christmas. My husband is culturally Jewish but still celebrates Christmas and this will blow your mind he as non Christian refers to Father Christmas. Try to imagine people do live different lives to your own and it is not an affront to you and your traditions!

sticksticks · 10/12/2020 01:58

@Furrybootsyecomfy

We’ve already done this thread. I’m Scottish- he’s always been Santa Claus to me.
Multiple times...I think it's in the annual thread cupboard at MNHQ.