Why is everyone referring to "Santa"

[WinWinnieTheWay]

DH and I (from different UK countries and different social class) were both brought up with Father Christmas. Why are so many people calling FC "Santa" these days? Is it just the impact of American culture? Each to their own, but I don't like it.

The point being that Irish Catholicism might be influenced over time by European Catholicism into adopting the ‘Saint Nicolas’ fable - along with Celtic folklore. But saint Nicolas was less likely to catch on in Protestant England - until it came from the USA as a sort of Irish/Italian catholic and Evangelist Protestant mashup- ‘Santa’!

@midnightstar66 - yes - Catholicism survived in parts of north west scotland and pockets of England after the reformation. Liverpool is of course heavily influenced by Irish Catholicism. So essentially it’s not regional at all! Same also in Scotland. I’m suggesting that in essence - Santa Claus is more of a Catholic thing - Father Christmas is more of a UK Protestant thing and ‘Santa’ is more of a North American thing.

But regional differences in the UK might reflect religious history also?

I don't really understand the point you are trying to make. My point is that is down to regional cultural differences and that is it stop reading offence in to something that is not there.

[quote Dadaist]@midnightstar66 - yes - Catholicism survived in parts of north west scotland and pockets of England after the reformation. Liverpool is of course heavily influenced by Irish Catholicism. So essentially it’s not regional at all! Same also in Scotland. I’m suggesting that in essence - Santa Claus is more of a Catholic thing - Father Christmas is more of a UK Protestant thing and ‘Santa’ is more of a North American thing.

But regional differences in the UK might reflect religious history also?[/quote]
I'm not following. Father Christmas is not commonly used in Scotland, so by UK Protestant, do you mean England?

There's very little Catholicism where I am from, yet it has always been Santa. One church in the whole area vs I don't know how many Church of Scotland ones (although they are getting fewer). Yet it is and always has been Santa.

I'm not convinced your theory holds water tbh.

he point being that Irish Catholicism might be influenced over time by European Catholicism into adopting the ‘Saint Nicolas’ fable - along with Celtic folklore. But saint Nicolas was less likely to catch on in Protestant England - until it came from the USA as a sort of Irish/Italian catholic and Evangelist Protestant mashup- ‘Santa’!

So then explain Scotland?

@Goldenbear

The parts of the UK where the Catholic church were more dominant reflecting what Dadiast remarked upon. English culture in parts of the south, south west in particular was around folklore and paganism, it is represented in lots of literature, particularly for children. It is not offensive to remark upon, it is how English culture manifests in parts so I don't really understand how Father Christmas is offensive.

Who was saying that Father Christmas was offensive?

@VanityWitch

Or more commonly on here, people who make song and dance about it want you to think they have nurseries and eat "suppah".

Snort. Yes, there is an element of this I think.

Obviously, some people are just brought up to say it and that's that, but there is a touch of the Valerie Jones about people who contrive to say it so they sound naicer.

FWIW, my only friend who is from a genuinely aristocratic family, went to public school and all that crap, owns a stately home, plus flats in London and all, says Santa. She also has tattoos . She does have suppah and her dcs do have a nursery though in one of their homes. I adore her btw.

Just an element? I suspect it is the whole point.

[quote Dadaist]@RaspberryCoulis - quoted from the article “ One might therefore fairly grant Coca-Cola some credit for cementing the modern image of Santa Claus in the public consciousness”
I never said Coca-Cola invented Santa Claus/Father Christmas-only that they popularised his full red image. It’s unlikely that you will find images that aren’t red and green before then - even your WW1 image I’ll venture? But the character has evolved from folklore and is traced to a pagan winter festival still celebrated in medieval times with ever greens (holly ivy and ewe).[/quote]
If you look at these images you will see that the full red image of Santa is well established before 1931

publicdomainreview.org/collection/a-pictorial-history-of-santa-claus

Well it shows a pretty insular life if you can't comprehend why many people refer to Father Christmas. Just because it is not your cultural reference it doesn't mean it's made up by aspirational snobs - how bizarre! The famous Raymond Brigg's children's book and film on channel 4 usually along with the yearly showing of The Snowman that features the same Father Christmas, do you think Raymond in writing this book had a huge chip on his shoulder about not belonging to the 'upper classes' so was inadvertently demonstrating what an aspirational snob he was!

It's use seems to be offensive to many on this thread as it wrongly has associations of snobby southern English folk that look down on the rest of the UK, the world in fact! Whereas actually, people are telling you they have grown up with this terminology- fact, no elements of class aspiration, just the cultural reference that's not in your own experience.

@Goldenbear

Well it shows a pretty insular life if you can't comprehend why many people refer to Father Christmas. Just because it is not your cultural reference it doesn't mean it's made up by aspirational snobs - how bizarre! The famous Raymond Brigg's children's book and film on channel 4 usually along with the yearly showing of The Snowman that features the same Father Christmas, do you think Raymond in writing this book had a huge chip on his shoulder about not belonging to the 'upper classes' so was inadvertently demonstrating what an aspirational snob he was!

The snobs are the ones that use Father Christmas and think Santa is "horrid", "common", "lower class", "American ".

Using Father Christmas is not an issue or snobbery. Making judgements on those that don't ,especially ignoring the many cultures and backgrounds of people in the UK is an issue and it is snobbery.

"Same also in Scotland. I’m suggesting that in essence - Santa Claus is more of a Catholic thing - Father Christmas is more of a UK Protestant thing and ‘Santa’ is more of a North American thing"

As a Scottish protestant I would dispute this theory...

Again literally no one has said that! People who refer to Santa and have only really heard that used are well aware of the regional differences. Yet again you've changed 'some people' to everyone including yourself re the trying to be posh thing. It's getting tiring repeating that. If you read back through the thread the only insular ones are those who insist Father Christmas is the only way for the whole uk and Santa is definitely Americanised - it isn't!

Because it's Saint Nicholas, the bishop of Mira. His bones lie in Bari in Italy. "Santa" derives from the saint bit.

No idea who ever called him father xmas and put him on the north pole. The guy actually existed, but a lot of traditional christmassy stuff is thought up.

I don't have any issues with folk using Father Christmas, I wouldn't equate it with anything other than it's a term used in England or I;ve heard folk in Scotland use it if their background is English. I know who they are talking about and I'm sure they know who I am when i say Santa.

Folk were annoyed that things are A: badged as coming from the USA when they are commonly used in other parts of the UK and B: The inference being that anything coming from the states is inferior and therefore reflects poorly on those in the UK who use it..

@Goldenbear

It's use seems to be offensive to many on this thread as it wrongly has associations of snobby southern English folk that look down on the rest of the UK, the world in fact! Whereas actually, people are telling you they have grown up with this terminology- fact, no elements of class aspiration, just the cultural reference that's not in your own experience.

Yeah, that's not what's been said on here at all.

I agree , its Father Christmas in this house, but sadly santa seems to be taking over possibly cheaper / easier to print on merchandise? Quicker to say, easier to sing/ rhyme with? And yes maybe more multicultural.
I shall continue to ban the word santa in our house 🤣
Christmas is a time for tradition and for us that means Father Christmas

@Goldenbear

It's use seems to be offensive to many on this thread as it wrongly has associations of snobby southern English folk that look down on the rest of the UK, the world in fact! Whereas actually, people are telling you they have grown up with this terminology- fact, no elements of class aspiration, just the cultural reference that's not in your own experience.

Are we reading the same thread?

People are saying that they dislike Father Christmas being deemed the correct term and the use of Santa being dismissed as wrong or American. That's not even close to saying that they find Father Christmas as a term offensive.

Well it shows a pretty insular life if you can't comprehend why many people refer to Santa Claus. Just because it is not your cultural reference it doesn't mean it's imported from America

Fixed it!

I can fully comprehend why people use Father Christmas, as I'm sure most can. But please keep on harping on about a comment made by one or maybe two people on this thread and ignore the fact that this type of nonsense is something that we face all the freaking time. Maybe you should consider politics as a career. That kind of deflection technique would serve you well.

@Tierful

It’s not a good opinion to have of a whole swathe of the population but as a Scot I think anyone who says Father Christmas is a bit of a knob

Naughty

@Goldenbear

It's use seems to be offensive to many on this thread as it wrongly has associations of snobby southern English folk that look down on the rest of the UK, the world in fact! Whereas actually, people are telling you they have grown up with this terminology- fact, no elements of class aspiration, just the cultural reference that's not in your own experience.

I'm not offended

Nor do I equate people from the south of England as "snobby" (which is itself a ghastly term). They're English, no more, no less.

Goodness, you both must be so posh. Well done.

The word Santa is probably becoming more popular because of the influence of modern American culture.

@MeringueCloud

The word Santa is probably becoming more popular because of the influence of modern American culture.

Or maybe because we're becoming more and more multicultural and there's more movement?