Why is everyone referring to "Santa"

[WinWinnieTheWay]

DH and I (from different UK countries and different social class) were both brought up with Father Christmas. Why are so many people calling FC "Santa" these days? Is it just the impact of American culture? Each to their own, but I don't like it.

@wellthatsunusual

That's quite a nice thought. All the newcomers get their introductory Santa Vs Father Christmas thread each year. Like an induction day in a new job.

GottenGottenGotten, yes, exactly, Father Christmas is used regionally elsewhere in the UK, it is not the same, it is different. People do seem to have a massive problem with this to the point of having to resort to insulting people who use it.

Every. Bleeding. Year.

Bit like every popular thread topic, a few will pop up just to show they've been here longer and read this before. You aren't the first on this thread

@Goldenbear

GottenGottenGotten, yes, exactly, Father Christmas is used regionally elsewhere in the UK, it is not the same, it is different. People do seem to have a massive problem with this to the point of having to resort to insulting people who use it.

That's not what people have a problem with. They have a problem with the implication that a certain geographical area is 'right' in their usage of words or pronunciation and everywhere else is influenced by American films.

That's not what people have a problem with. They have a problem with the implication that a certain geographical area is 'right' in their usage of words or pronunciation and everywhere else is influenced by American films.

Exactly this.

GottenGottenGotten, yes, exactly, Father Christmas is used regionally elsewhere in the UK, it is not the same, it is different. People do seem to have a massive problem with this to the point of having to resort to insulting people who use it.

Still spectacularly missing the point I see

Father Christmas' A nod to pagan rituals' -exactly,
folklore, which is a very big part of English culture which is not as heavily influenced by religion as other parts of the UK and Ireland.

But that isn't entirely true as the pp with outright prejudice towards 'swathes' of the population who use Father Christmas has just proved. It's convenient but it's not true.

@Goldenbear

Father Christmas' A nod to pagan rituals' -exactly, folklore, which is a very big part of English culture which is not as heavily influenced by religion as other parts of the UK and Ireland.

Which particular parts of the UK are you thinking of?

Incidentally- it’s the same debate over whether you have an angel or a fairy at the top of the tree. Angels are for firmly Christain households - where as the fairy is for those who introduce more of the pre-Christian traditions in.

Keep in mind also that Catholics are far more comfortable with Santa as a Christian Saint - Protestants may be more uncomfortable with a catholic saint than with a pagan figure.

But in my house it’s definitely Father Christmas (a Christianised reference to the green man, a fairy tree too, Yule logs, holly and evergreens, and winter scenes. The pagans had the right idea. The monotheistic desert religion - evangelical or catholic- has little to do with the celebration of the mid-winter festival in a temperate zone.

Still spectacularly missing the point I see

Indeed!

Which particular parts of the UK are you thinking of?

I'm particularly interested in this answer too 👀

But that isn't entirely true as the pp with outright prejudice towards 'swathes' of the population who use Father Christmas has just proved. It's convenient but it's not true.

Literally no one has said that. You decided because people mentioned SOME do (and of course it happens, with loads of things not just with Santa) that it meant every single one of you. Including yourself, when it's been made clear several times it wasn't directed at you specifically. You keep going back to that.

@midnightstar66

Which particular parts of the UK are you thinking of?

I'm particularly interested in this answer too 👀

Which particular parts of the UK are you thinking of?

I'm particularly interested in this answer too 👀

Probably the parts with accents...

GottenGottenGotten, yes, exactly, Father Christmas is used regionally elsewhere in the UK, it is not the same, it is different. People do seem to have a massive problem with this to the point of having to resort to insulting people who use it

Some people may be insulting others purely down to their use of 'Father Christmas', but there are many, many more that erroneously dismiss regional use of the words Santa, gotten and the celebrating of Halloween, among other things, by telling us we imported it from America.

We didn't.

But we get this
Every.
Sodding.
Year.
Multiple.
Times.

I think most people would understand that to have our traditions and language constantly dismissed as inauthentic and imported gets a bit (a lot) frustrating. And I guess some people react negatively. I can understand that. Because people have tried to suppress our culture for many, many, many years.

As a child I was punished for speaking in our local dialect in school. I was left completely confused because that's just how I spoke. I didn't know what was technically English and what was dialect. We were never told what the difference was, we were expected to just know.

So if you think the poor ickle English have it tough over their use of Father Christmas, well, maybe it's about time they understood just what that feels like.

where the green man was turned to red by Coca-Cola in the 1920s

This is bollocks too.

www.snopes.com/fact-check/the-claus-that-refreshes/

*midnightstar66

Which particular parts of the UK are you thinking of?

I'm particularly interested in this answer too 👀

Which particular parts of the UK are you thinking of?

I'm particularly interested in this answer too 👀

Probably the parts with accents... grin*

Another one wanting to know where these places are.

I come from one of those horrid Celtic fringe places with the odd accents.
I would suggest that these places are the ones who have most held on to pagan culture- Halloween for example always has been huge in these forsaken parts.

I have a collection of pre-WW1 postcards, one of which features a very kindly looking Santa, dressed in red.

People very ‘against’ Father Christmas are more likely to have Catholic heritage, and therefore more so in Ireland and North/West of Scotland.

Because Protestants - (found in numbers everywhere in UK) are uncomfortable with catholic saints - they may have been more likely to adopt ‘Father Christmas’ being the lesser of the two offending options, as part of British folklore.

US Evangelists don’t like Catholicism much either - so shorten the catholic Santa Claus (ie St Nicolas) to ‘Santa’ - the US standard! but they’re ok with Angels (fairies not so much).

Puritans reject all forms of ‘mass’ and prefer Easter to Christmas - which is more for children - and also dislike other pagan traditions such as Halloween and midsummer solstice).
Seasons Greetings - Happy Christmas - Merry Yuletide one and all!

Father Christmas' A nod to pagan rituals' -exactly,
folklore, which is a very big part of English culture which is not as heavily influenced by religion as other parts of the UK and Ireland

Oh yeah? So how do you explain the fact that the Irish for Santy is Dadai Na Nollag...which means Daddy Christmas/Father Christmas?

@RaspberryCoulis - quoted from the article “ One might therefore fairly grant Coca-Cola some credit for cementing the modern image of Santa Claus in the public consciousness”
I never said Coca-Cola invented Santa Claus/Father Christmas-only that they popularised his full red image. It’s unlikely that you will find images that aren’t red and green before then - even your WW1 image I’ll venture? But the character has evolved from folklore and is traced to a pagan winter festival still celebrated in medieval times with ever greens (holly ivy and ewe).

People very ‘against’ Father Christmas are more likely to have Catholic heritage, and therefore more so in Ireland and North/West of Scotland

I think the Catholic thing is a red herring. As a pp said, the Irish for Santa/FC is 'Daidí na Nollag', which is literally 'Father Christmas'.

The parts of the UK where the Catholic church were more dominant reflecting what Dadiast remarked upon. English culture in parts of the south, south west in particular was around folklore and paganism, it is represented in lots of literature, particularly for children. It is not offensive to remark upon, it is how English culture manifests in parts so I don't really understand how Father Christmas is offensive.

I’m really not sure where Santa Claus became a substitute for Father Christmas- but I suspect it comes from mainland European Catholicism rather than Ireland- who would have had similar Celtic pagan folklore before the influence of Christianity.

The parts of the UK where the Catholic church were more dominant

And which parts are those? Because as I understand it there are parts of each of the UK countries where the catholic church is more dominant. My friends in Liverpool for example all send their kids to a catholic primary, same could be said for parts of Glasgow, although there are still plenty of other. This is not true of the whole of Scotland though by any means so you'll need to be more specific about 'the areas of the uk' that you mean