Avon, is this really possible/sustainable?

[ImFree2doasiwant]

I discovered today that a friend is earning 5k a month from Avon. She's some sort of team leader, and started by selling about 18 months ago. She does work quite hard at it by all accounts.

I'll admit to being rather gobsmacked! I thought avon was just "Avon ladies" with catalogues, and now online, taking your orders.

Has anyone else got experience of this? I'm really not considering it for myself (I've seen her social media, it's not something I'd be good at I don't think! )

Avon’s “reps” are nothing more than Avon customers.

Lies and stupid is uncalled for

Totally called for when that’s what is happening.

@Smallsteps88

Ok if you pay for the kit and sell nothing you’ll lose £9 but that’s all.

Right, you can’t surely believe your own lies that new reps only buy the £9 kit can you?
I’ve attached a screen shot of the two kits. The £9 one is literally just a single lipstick, no brochure, no sales tools. How exactly does that help to start the reps “business”? You know it doesn’t. They all go for the £30 one. No-one is losing just £9.

This information is right there on Avon’s website. How can you be stupid enough to think people won’t be able to find it? They’ve done a real good job on you.

Ignoring the insults and answering the point

I never said all reps took the £9 kit. It’s about half that do.

It’s a basic low cost join option that includes set up of online store so mainly aimed at reps wanting to be digital. There’s a £10 one that includes sales aids and brochures. Neither make Avon any money

It’s fundamentally different from claiming we make reps pay for their leaders any more than they pay for me...

You are paid a set amount each month as per your annual salary. That is budgeted for in your company's annual financial plan.

Team leaders are paid an amount monthly based mainly on how much their team of downline sells. The profit margin of each item factors this amount in so the business can't 'lose' money on it, it can only make more profit for both the business and team leaders. The more products sales reps sell, the more profit the team leaders make.

As a PP said, apples and oranges.

I agree with you @BillMasen that calling you names is unhelpful and unnecessary and I do appreciate you answering questions about this. Please understand people have been personally affected themselves or had people close to them fucked over by MLMs so we are keen to dispel the common myths and sales tactics often used by such companies to prevent people being taken advantage of.

I work with local job seeking support services, we are awash with messages from Avon “reps” looking for “team members”. The local buying and selling pages are packed with ads inviting people to join their Avon team. They’re not allowed to call it Avon but it’s all there in the information. They’re not posting ads advertising Avon products, they’re advertising “jobs” as a rep. Avon’s profit comes from recruiting “reps” that buy their kits. It doesn’t come from “reps” selling products to friends and family.

I never said all reps took the £9 kit.

So what did you mean by this?

Ok if you pay for the kit and sell nothing you’ll lose £9 but that’s all.

Did you for get add “or £30”?

@BillMasen I don't think your stupid or a lier

I think these companies are good at brainwashing essentially. They tell those involved they are all about integrity, they twist words and convince people it's all good.

I wouldn't say u are involved in this. But they have convinced u for sure that many things are something they are not.

@youvegottenminuteslynn

I agree with you *@BillMasen* that calling you names is unhelpful and unnecessary and I do appreciate you answering questions about this. Please understand people have been personally affected themselves or had people close to them fucked over by MLMs so we are keen to dispel the common myths and sales tactics often used by such companies to prevent people being taken advantage of.

Thank you and yes I do understand that.

I in no way condone people being taken advantage of. I would never work for a business that does that intentionally (all businesses get things wrong). I have simply presented facts to explain how Avon works as some posters, maybe understandably, do not know or have old or incorrect information.

Avon is and always has been utterly shite. They're not earning fortunes unless they're at the top conning people which can't last long and then they will be into the next MLM pile of crap that comes along.

How are people fooled by these dickheads?

@Smallsteps88

I work with local job seeking support services, we are awash with messages from Avon “reps” looking for “team members”. The local buying and selling pages are packed with ads inviting people to join their Avon team. They’re not allowed to call it Avon but it’s all there in the information. They’re not posting ads advertising Avon products, they’re advertising “jobs” as a rep. Avon’s profit comes from recruiting “reps” that buy their kits. It doesn’t come from “reps” selling products to friends and family.

Again, Avon make nothing from the kits. The cost between 9 and 30, so my point was you could join for as little as 9. Yes there are other kits with more product. As I’ve said, around half take the cheap kit. We do not make any profit on starter kits.

The Income Disclosure is a public document @BillMasen. In the US the Federal Trade Commission requires the publication of them I understand. Avon should be publishing such a document. It would be nice if the DTI started insisting on this here, even if there are some flaws in the reporting. It’s concerning that an employee of Avon doesn’t know what an ID is!

@BillMasen sorry.... Avon makes £0 profit on this? Making that one lipstick and a cardboard box costs £10???????

She might (very unlikely - slim to no chance) be TURNING OVER £5k/month but that not the same as MAKING (profit) £ at that level. MLMs thrive on rounding up, telling positive stories, bullshitting and taking advantage of their friends. (Sorry for the all caps shouting my keyboard is unmanageable)

And @BillMasen just to be clear. I am not question your personal integrity and appreciate your polite engagement but I am questioning your understanding of the business model and your acceptance of Avon as a force for good. Have a read of Robert FitzPatrick as he has an in-depth knowledge of the problems of the “direct selling/MLM model”. Female Empowerment it ain’t.

@YouokHun

The Income Disclosure is a public document *@BillMasen*. In the US the Federal Trade Commission requires the publication of them I understand. Avon should be publishing such a document. It would be nice if the DTI started insisting on this here, even if there are some flaws in the reporting. It’s concerning that an employee of Avon doesn’t know what an ID is!

Apologies not my area If it’s public then you can get hold of it? If it’s US only, Avon in the US is a separate company from the rest of the world so we wouldn’t have one. If it’s not published then I can’t share.

My thoughts too @PrayingandHoping! There will obviously be markup on the lipstick and other products in the starter kits

[quote PrayingandHoping]@BillMasen sorry.... Avon makes £0 profit on this? Making that one lipstick and a cardboard box costs £10???????[/quote]
Yes
Vat, packaging, postage, product, brochures, other bits. It’s pretty close to 10

So how much does that lipstick retail for rrp?

Sorry I don't believe one word of all of that (again you aren't lying. Whoever u are told that is)

No way does one lipstick, and a load of cardboard and paper cost £10. Not a chance.
They will be so massed produced by a company of that size

I’m not overly happy about being accused of misinformation and manipulation. Lying in effect,

But you were happy to accuse me of that?

I've worked in household name corporates in the US and the UK and sorry @BillMasen you may have been told otherwise but there is no way that starter kit (inc product, packaging, postage, brochures etc you mentioned) manufactured in the quantities Avon is working with, is close to £10.

I would never work for a business that does that intentionally

But that’s exactly what you do work for!

@PrayingandHoping

So how much does that lipstick retail for rrp?

Sorry I don't believe one word of all of that (again you aren't lying. Whoever u are told that is)

No way does one lipstick, and a load of cardboard and paper cost £10. Not a chance.
They will be so massed produced by a company of that size

Not sure on rrp, I am not justbparroting what I’ve been told. Total costs all in are not far off 10. Sorry that’s the truth

@Smallsteps88

I’m not overly happy about being accused of misinformation and manipulation. Lying in effect,

But you were happy to accuse me of that?

No and if I did I apologise.

The problem with any MLM is that it encourages abuse within the down line. Which the head office can then deny but the fact is that the methodology is still designed to encourage it.

For example - I have a team member Sally. She hasn’t sold anything. Sally is pretty obviously rubbish at selling and so perhaps should be encouraged to go and get a different job instead. I make no money from this. Or I could suggest to Sally that she might find it easier to sell if she buys some “stock” to show people. I make money from this. This is in my interests. But it isn’t in Sally’s interests. As she is now much poorer.

And that’s the problem. Avon can say they discourage this but what would happen to me if Avon found out. “I’m just trying to help Sally grow her business.” I say. “Excellent” says Avon and pays me my commission.