Avon, is this really possible/sustainable?

[ImFree2doasiwant]

I discovered today that a friend is earning 5k a month from Avon. She's some sort of team leader, and started by selling about 18 months ago. She does work quite hard at it by all accounts.

I'll admit to being rather gobsmacked! I thought avon was just "Avon ladies" with catalogues, and now online, taking your orders.

Has anyone else got experience of this? I'm really not considering it for myself (I've seen her social media, it's not something I'd be good at I don't think! )

It is a MLM business. It’s no different to the others.

Sorry but this is just untrue
Kits start at £9
There is no minimum order, no fine,

Wrong!! I have personally experienced this. I was recruited on my own doorstep and signed up by two women for what I thought was handing out a few books to my friends and neighbours over the weekend. Two days later after having investigated I realised it wasn’t something I was interested in. I phoned the “team leader” to let her know as she said she would be back 4 days later to see how I’d gotten on with my books. No answer from her. So the two women came on the Monday and I told them “not interested”. They pretended to be shocked and said they didn’t know how to cancel my membership because this has never happened before they would have to get back to me. I said fine. They left. A few days later a kit I didn’t know I had ordered arrived. I called both women- no answer. I texted- no response. I kept calling. Eventually team leader replied to a text saying she had cancelled my membership and would call to collect the kit. She never came. What did come was an invoice for £30 for the kit. I called her again. No answer. I was then called by someone who said she was the team leaders manager or something and could see that I hadn’t put in an order for my first campaign and wanted to help me. I said I wasn’t a rep and my membership had been cancelled weeks ago. She said it hadn’t and that I owed £35. I asked for a breakdown of that and she said £30 for kit and £5 fine for not putting in an order of at least £80. I told her I wouldn’t be paying and wanted my membership cancelled immediately. She apologised and said she would sort it. I received 2 more invoices over the next two months for £40 and then £45 (two more £5 fines) and then I received messages from a debt collection agency acting on behalf of Avon to collect the money owed. I called all three women again. Ignored. Finally a different woman called me about 4 months after first meeting them, she was higher up again and wanted to offer me support to meet my target of £80 per campaign. I told her the whole story and she was extremely apologetic and sorted it all out. All fines and debt cancelled. Don’t call me liar.

I get frustrated when it’s lumped in with disreputable mlm businesses that do exploit people.

That’s exactly what it is.

Avon targets women specifically to rip them off.

@BSintolerant

How can you be sure she’s earning £5k a month? A lot of MLM bots pull that figure out of their arses to lure gullible folk into signing up to their MLM.

^^This

Avon has been MLM for a few years now and the introduction of the ability to build teams, in other words, recruit downlines, has tipped it into very dubious territory. Forget the old ding dog Avon calling direct selling MO, it’s now altogether more sinister. Lying about income is right up there on the long list of MLM sins and it is highly unlikely that your friend is earning a consistent £5k a month. If she is one of the 1% in MLM that does earn a lot of money she’ll be doing it by recruiting not selling. Have a look at your local FB pages; choc full of recruits desperately trying to make a go of it in a totally saturated market, thinking they can earn by selling product. It’s causing real damage to people who have lost their jobs during the pandemic and are being tricked into MLM in the belief it offers a viable living - it’s a lie.

Have a look at the MLMtruth, Talented Ladies Club and the BBC docu The Secrets of the Multimillionaires (on iPlayer). There are a few industry watchers on this thread and as one of them I can tell you categorically that in terms of shite outcomes for sign ups @BillMasen is totally wrong - Avon is NO better than the others; they all share a business model which is seriously flawed and harmful.

Smallsteps88 when was this?

I’m sorry you had that experience, and I’m not doubting you. I’m just explaining how the set up is (and I work there). I’m not aware if there were fines in the past but there certainly are none now. Nor are there minimum orders to start earning now.

Your experience sounds awful. I genuinely believe it wouldn’t happen now, but fully understand why it’s left you with a poor view of Avon. I’m sorry.

It was February of last year they knocked on my door.

Youokhun
I’m not doubting some people exaggerate earnings. Avon don’t encourage that but can’t prevent it as reps are independent self employed people.

On the recruiting, yes leaders earn commission on their teams sales but as I said that doesn’t impact the reps in their team. They want to recruit yes, but they only earn if that recruit sells and makes money for themselves in the first place. There’s no benefit to a team that doesn’t earn.

Up front costs are low. £9 as I’ve said.

I guess I see it as a genuine low risk earning opportunity that some (few) earn well from, most earn a bit and some nothing. There’s no requirement to buy stock or hit a minimum order so in all those regards it’s different.

What’s your specific issue with the Avon direct selling model?

@Smallsteps88

It was February of last year they knocked on my door.

In that case I’m genuinely surprised and that should not have happened. It should have been clear what kit you wanted (there was a £15 option) and I don’t believe there were ever fines for not hitting the minimum sale (it was just that you didn’t earn commission until you hit it)

I’m really sorry you had such a poor experience. I’d like to think it could not and would not happen now.

Excellent documentary on bbc iPlayer about who these MLMs work and who they target.

And how cultish they are and why.

And only a few weeks ago they were indulging in some highly doubtful “fundraising” for the NHS by getting people to “sponsor” product then donated the (paid for) product to nurses. Most of the money destined for the NHS as far as the donators were concerned was siphoned off as profit by Avon, with the NHS used to generate product sales and the poor Avon sign ups donating their commission. Avon then basks in the good PR of “donating to the NHS” when they’ve done nothing of the sort. This is just one small example of the trickery that goes on. @BillMasen, with respect, you’re standing too close to the scam, stand back and you’ll see what we’re seeing.

@YouokHun

And only a few weeks ago they were indulging in some highly doubtful “fundraising” for the NHS by getting people to “sponsor” product then donated the (paid for) product to nurses. Most of the money destined for the NHS as far as the donators were concerned was siphoned off as profit by Avon, with the NHS used to generate product sales and the poor Avon sign ups donating their commission. Avon then basks in the good PR of “donating to the NHS” when they’ve done nothing of the sort. This is just one small example of the trickery that goes on. *@BillMasen*, with respect, you’re standing too close to the scam, stand back and you’ll see what we’re seeing.

This is categorically not how it worked. Avon does not make any profit from charity products. I am close, and close enough to be 100% sure this is the case.

I am genuinely interested in your issues with the Avon model. I do believe it’s different to the problematic mlms

Avon is a problematic, predatory pyramid scheme just like the others. They have all targeted vulnerable women relentlessly during this pandemic. 99% of people recruited LOSE money in these scams.
They are also not cruelty free which gives them another big cross in my opinion.

“Makes” 5k - but is that actual profit / income?

Maybe she has 5k coming it but costs of buying good to sell on are 4k, so she has a net income of 1k.

I’d be dubious.

£5k.... yeah right. Is that turnover or profit.

People are very good at saying stuff like that which sounds impressive and is far from the truth of what they keep in their pocket

MLM pressure sells to your friends and neighbours. One way to loose friends (and have them unfollow u on social media)

I have had Avon "ladies" stick their catelogues through my door, unwanted, I stick them straight in my recycling. They I get bombarded with letters asking me to leave it on my doorstep for them to collect. Flipping tough! U shove something like that through my door unasked it's going in the bin.

@Norma27

Avon is a problematic, predatory pyramid scheme just like the others. They have all targeted vulnerable women relentlessly during this pandemic. 99% of people recruited LOSE money in these scams. They are also not cruelty free which gives them another big cross in my opinion.

So I understand your concerns but I’ve articulated the very low costs to join, and the model which means reps don’t buy stock. Ok if you pay for the kit and sell nothing you’ll lose £9 but that’s all. 80% of reps earn something each month.

And Avon do not test products or ingredients on animals anywhere in the world. Have a look at the website.

Again happy to discuss the merits and issues with mlm but facts matter

I’m not doubting some people exaggerate earnings. Avon don’t encourage that but can’t prevent it as reps are independent self employed people.

Yes it's inevitable under the MLM model. Recruits have an incentive to mislead. Companies can say "it wasn't me" while benefiting from the dubious claims about the product or "opportunity". This is why reputable companies do not use the MLM model.

@zigaziga

“Makes” 5k - but is that actual profit / income?

Maybe she has 5k coming it but costs of buying good to sell on are 4k, so she has a net income of 1k.

I’d be dubious.

You may be right. 5k profit is possible, some do make that but it’s a small number, less than 50.

5k turnover earns c2k commission depending on some things. Just for info

@MLMsuperfan

> I’m not doubting some people exaggerate earnings. Avon don’t encourage that but can’t prevent it as reps are independent self employed people.

Yes it's inevitable under the MLM model. Recruits have an incentive to mislead. Companies can say "it wasn't me" while benefiting from the dubious claims about the product or "opportunity". This is why reputable companies do not use the MLM model.

So I can see that but actually there’s no incentive to mislead. We want reps who sell, and earn, as they stay. Sales leaders want the same. A rep who can’t earn what they need won’t stay and the leader who recruited them won’t get any reward for simply building a non selling team.

Leaders earn when their teams earn. Not if they dont

@BillMasen Avon sell in China. Therefore they are definitely not cruelty free.
Avon try to pretend they are by lying.

@BillMasen out of interest - how much do you earn a month through avon? Is it £5k?

Avon IS an MLM - just a bigger and more well known name. Not necessarily more trustworthy...

Also, I work for (well am furloughed but...) self employed people working out their taxes for the year. I know what self employed actually means. MLMers (or saps) often never make a profit at all so how exactly are they self employed? Do you have a utr - what about your tax returns??

You're in it, so you're going to be defensive about this but everything you've said is schpeel trying to legitimise what you're in.

My mums friend got into £20k worth of debt through an MLM - the huns push and push and push and depending on how resiliant you are you tend to cave.
Remember mlms specifically target vulnerable women with promises and hopes and dreams etc. They say "you'll earn £5k a month" so the woman will tell her friends shes earning £5k a month (when she isnt and in the hopes that shell tell her friends). My mums friend bought a car on credit, she went on holidays she couldnt afford all trying to legitimise the lies she was telling and promises everyone.

[quote Norma27]@BillMasen Avon sell in China. Therefore they are definitely not cruelty free.
Avon try to pretend they are by lying.[/quote]
That has stopped. Like I say, check the site but there is no animal testing worldwide. It’s a clear position

BillMasen How many hours do you put in a month and what do you earn?