Avon, is this really possible/sustainable?

[ImFree2doasiwant]

I discovered today that a friend is earning 5k a month from Avon. She's some sort of team leader, and started by selling about 18 months ago. She does work quite hard at it by all accounts.

I'll admit to being rather gobsmacked! I thought avon was just "Avon ladies" with catalogues, and now online, taking your orders.

Has anyone else got experience of this? I'm really not considering it for myself (I've seen her social media, it's not something I'd be good at I don't think! )

They don’t just lie about £5k a month. The DSA director general says you can earn £372 a month guaranteed, every month just by selling Avon to your friends and family and that there is only one way to earn in “direct selling” and that’s by selling product, and there is absolutely no incentive to recruit. Mind you she is pretty clueless and thinks that the DSA has regulatory powers .

No one I know who has and is researching the MLM model and its impact on sign ups can find anyone who has/is consistently earning nearly £400 a month every month by selling Avon product, especially when there are no territories and the sign ups are all trying to sell to the same small pool who if they’re not selling Avon are all selling BSAH.

There is definitely something going on with reps over purchasing; FB, eBay etc etc are awash with product; great piles of identical product sold at knock down prices. Why is that happening if the reps just order to fulfil concrete customer orders?

[quote Doublebubblebubble]@BillMasen out of interest - how much do you earn a month through avon? Is it £5k?

Avon IS an MLM - just a bigger and more well known name. Not necessarily more trustworthy...

Also, I work for (well am furloughed but...) self employed people working out their taxes for the year. I know what self employed actually means. MLMers (or saps) often never make a profit at all so how exactly are they self employed? Do you have a utr - what about your tax returns??

You're in it, so you're going to be defensive about this but everything you've said is schpeel trying to legitimise what you're in.

My mums friend got into £20k worth of debt through an MLM - the huns push and push and push and depending on how resiliant you are you tend to cave.
Remember mlms specifically target vulnerable women with promises and hopes and dreams etc. They say "you'll earn £5k a month" so the woman will tell her friends shes earning £5k a month (when she isnt and in the hopes that shell tell her friends). My mums friend bought a car on credit, she went on holidays she couldnt afford all trying to legitimise the lies she was telling and promises everyone.[/quote]
I never made much as a rep, I’m head office, but I didn’t lose.

Again not disputing the disreputable practices of some. Just trying to really understand the issues people have with the Avon model and ensure they’re aware of facts not assumptions

What specifically is your issue with the Avon model, commissions and rewards?

It’s an MLM just like all the rest, no matter how much @BillMasen protests it isn’t.
@ImFree2doasiwant your friend is clearly an absolute liar who is just trying to sucker other people in!
Hopefully she sees sense soon.

I think her 'earnings' are actually the turnover of herself and anyone who is underneath her in the pyramid.
I'd be very surprised if she's making 5 grandclear profit a month!!

@YouokHun

They don’t just lie about £5k a month. The DSA director general says you can earn £372 a month guaranteed, every month just by selling Avon to your friends and family and that there is only one way to earn in “direct selling” and that’s by selling product, and there is absolutely no incentive to recruit. Mind you she is pretty clueless and thinks that the DSA has regulatory powers .

No one I know who has and is researching the MLM model and its impact on sign ups can find anyone who has/is consistently earning nearly £400 a month every month by selling Avon product, especially when there are no territories and the sign ups are all trying to sell to the same small pool who if they’re not selling Avon are all selling BSAH.

There is definitely something going on with reps over purchasing; FB, eBay etc etc are awash with product; great piles of identical product sold at knock down prices. Why is that happening if the reps just order to fulfil concrete customer orders?

Can’t speak for the dsa but there are no guarantees. Some reps earn nothing. 80% earn something. Average is what, £50 a month so for many it’s either a bit of extra cash, or a discount on stuff for personal use.

However hundreds do earn above 500 and some in the thousands. Those treat it as a full time job though.

Some reps over purchase when there are offers and then sell on when the product is back to full price. That’s their choice and risk. They don’t have to do that. The vast majority place and deliver customer orders and hold no stock

I hope you realise I’m just trying to engage here and ensure people understand the Avon model specifically.

@FelicityPike

It’s an MLM just like all the rest, no matter how much *@BillMasen* protests it isn’t. *@ImFree2doasiwant* your friend is clearly an absolute liar who is just trying to sucker other people in! Hopefully she sees sense soon.

Appreciate your views but can you explain what “being suckered in” to Avon looks like. I see an up front cost of £9 and a commission on everything you sell, however little.

BillMasen So they treat it like a full time job, presumably work many hours and some get the amazing sum of “above” £500? Sign me up!!

I did Avon years and years ago (like 20 years ago). Then it wasn't an MLM. You had an area manager who would give you specific roads that were your patch and no other reps were allowed on them. You made commission from the products you sold. It gave me pocket money but never a lot. Then it turned into an MLM and I got out as soon as it did. The area manager suddenly wanted to recruit everyone to her downline and it was all shit. I said to her that I wouldn't be part of a pyramid scheme and she left me alone.

@Nicknacky

BillMasen So they treat it like a full time job, presumably work many hours and some get the amazing sum of “above” £500? Sign me up!!

No I meant the ones in the thousands it’s full time and big teams

BillMasen Yes, the ones at the top of the pyramid......

@BillMasen please can you explain why people would ever buy products from the website or even a seller considering they could just pay £9 as a one off, become a seller and then have discounts for life?

Sounds like a strange way to make money.

@Nicknacky

BillMasen Yes, the ones at the top of the pyramid......

But what impact does that have on their team? The leaders get commission from Avon, they don’t take it from their team and they only earn if their team earns. I’m not sure why you think it’s a pyramid scheme when the lower levels don’t pay the higher levels

BillMasem You say 80% earn “something”. 80% of people don’t start a job hoping to earn £50 a month, they are fed the lies that they will be the ones that earn £££££.

How is it NOT a pyramid scheme apart from the fact you won’t admit that as they are illegal?

[quote TikTakTikTak]@BillMasen please can you explain why people would ever buy products from the website or even a seller considering they could just pay £9 as a one off, become a seller and then have discounts for life?

Sounds like a strange way to make money.[/quote]
Online shoppers are a different group of people. Your typical Avon customer doesn’t buy much online and likes the catalogue. You’re right they could sign up and effectively get 15% off everything for themselves, and a lot do just that. It’s like a small fee for discounts for life, yes.

Some don’t buy enough or often so are happy to pay their rep. Some don’t want the hassle.

@Nicknacky

BillMasem You say 80% earn “something”. 80% of people don’t start a job hoping to earn £50 a month, they are fed the lies that they will be the ones that earn £££££.

How is it NOT a pyramid scheme apart from the fact you won’t admit that as they are illegal?

Lots don’t want it to be more than either a bit of extra cash, or a discount for themselves. That’s their choice and they’re not employed. It should be made clear that’s their call and a good leader understands different reps have different motivations to join.

It’s not a pyramid as the new rep does not pay anything up the structure. Just the initial cost of the kit to Avon. They then sell to their customers and Avon pay commission. No one earns purely by recruitung

She's an Executive team leader.

Executive

What bollocks.

@BillMasen China have not changed their position on animal testing. Any product sold there is tested on animals by Chinese law. Avon may not do it themselves but they allow those in China to do it.
Therefore, Avon is definitely not cruelty free.

I would never expect those in MLM/pyramid schemes to be keen on the truth though. A business model which should be outlawed. And Avon is as bad as the others.

Online shoppers are a different group of people.
The high street is dying because of online shopping. If "direct selling" is such a profitable alternative to shops then why don't more companies use this method?

Some don’t buy enough or often so are happy to pay their rep. Some don’t want the hassle.
Buy enough? Well these people are apparently earning their sellers a wage in commission only, so they must be buying a lot. Or do you mean they don't buy enough to hit some sort of target?

The leaders get commission from Avon, they don’t take it from their team and they only earn if their team earns.

They only earn if their team earns, so their income is dependent on their teams performance. But unlike a non MLM company, that team of downlines is paying for the privilege of helping their upline earn more money through them.

I’m not sure why you think it’s a pyramid scheme when the lower levels don’t pay the higher levels

Because the lower levels pay to be in a company where their profit directly benefits their upline.

This structure means they are pressured from above to push for sales they are often uncomfortable making, but do so based on promises of earnings that are outlandish.

They are also often pushed to buy stock as inventory which falsely inflated sales figures and are often left unsold sitting in the downlines garage. Sunk cost fallacy then makes the downlines feel they are now committed so can't leave.

The Avon reps earning thousands a month are not making it through their own personal sales, they are making it through their downlines. And they will certainly be the ones encouraging unnecessary inventory and hard sales.

I appreciate you work at HO so feel defensive of the model but you surely acknowledge that the people earning £3k a month plus will be more likely to be the ones pressuring downlines. They don't make that money off their own sales.

@youvegottenminuteslynn

Exactly!!

@TikTakTikTak

Online shoppers are a different group of people. The high street is dying because of online shopping. If "direct selling" is such a profitable alternative to shops then why don't more companies use this method?

Some don’t buy enough or often so are happy to pay their rep. Some don’t want the hassle.
Buy enough? Well these people are apparently earning their sellers a wage in commission only, so they must be buying a lot. Or do you mean they don't buy enough to hit some sort of target?

I meant some individuals don’t buy enough to, in their minds, justify signing up and paying their £9 for their lifetime discount. I’m talking customers here.

[quote Norma27]@BillMasen China have not changed their position on animal testing. Any product sold there is tested on animals by Chinese law. Avon may not do it themselves but they allow those in China to do it.
Therefore, Avon is definitely not cruelty free. [/quote]
I’m not close to this as it’s a global thing but I understand we do not now sell in China due to this. Any more and I’d just be guessing or quoting from the website.

Of course it's a pyramid scheme...
You just described it

It's just that they don't pay upline direct. It's taken out already....

My issue with it? All the MLMs... is the constant flipping pestering from them.... it's targeted for you to get your friends and neighbours to buy off you. Can u really not see that that's not a great way to treat your friends and neighbours?!!

U get to your friends to sign up and do it and sell to their friends, and U make money out of it.

It's always "hi how are u blah blah.... I'm putting an X order in Saturday. Do U want anything"

🙄🙄🙄

They are all the same.

@youvegottenminuteslynn

The leaders get commission from Avon, they don’t take it from their team and they only earn if their team earns.

They only earn if their team earns, so their income is dependent on their teams performance. But unlike a non MLM company, that team of downlines is paying for the privilege of helping their upline earn more money through them.

I’m not sure why you think it’s a pyramid scheme when the lower levels don’t pay the higher levels

Because the lower levels pay to be in a company where their profit directly benefits their upline.

This structure means they are pressured from above to push for sales they are often uncomfortable making, but do so based on promises of earnings that are outlandish.

They are also often pushed to buy stock as inventory which falsely inflated sales figures and are often left unsold sitting in the downlines garage. Sunk cost fallacy then makes the downlines feel they are now committed so can't leave.

The Avon reps earning thousands a month are not making it through their own personal sales, they are making it through their downlines. And they will certainly be the ones encouraging unnecessary inventory and hard sales.

I appreciate you work at HO so feel defensive of the model but you surely acknowledge that the people earning £3k a month plus will be more likely to be the ones pressuring downlines. They don't make that money off their own sales.

Ok, so a couple of times you’ve said down lines pay their up line or pay to be in Avon. The only thing they pay is the £9 to Avon. Nothing to the up line. Ever. Please accept that bit.

I do take your point on pressuring reps to make sales, and perhaps to top them up and buy stock. It shouldn’t happen but when there are 5000 leaders out there, some behave badly. The changes to the commission (no threshold to hit to start earning) should help reduce that but fundamentally Avon want reps to be happy with their earnings and stay. Unhappy reps benefit no one. I accept it can be a problem but it’s not what we want or aim for. Need to do more perhaps...