Colleague and annual leave

[Florelei]

It’s getting to that time of year again. I have a colleague who I actually get on well with - we are good as a team and work well together. Our strengths compliment each other in a good way.

However, we have the same problem every year. Every year before I can get a look in they request holiday for all of the best dates. Every year I ask if we can sit down and agree a fair split of the holidays around Easter, bank holidays and Christmas and each year nothing changes. This invariably means that she’s always got more holidays left than me at the end of the year and can take at least a week off which I then have to cover. The week is nearly always taken at our busy period.

It’s happened again this year. My manager is asking me if I have objections to all these holiday requests from her for all of the best dates. I don’t want to appear unprofessional but I’m fed up of this.

Should I object and out my own counter dates in and let my manager decide?

I spoke to colleague yesterday and said i thought we’d agreed that we would talk about the best dates and perhaps take a week off each at Easter. She told me she didn’t think she needed to discuss this with me because ‘it’s standard stuff’.

She also said that she never knows when I am off as I don’t tell her - which is not true - it just goes in one ear and out of the other.

I’m at a loss as to how to deal with this! Please help me.

@WhereverIGoddamnLike

What is it with mumsnet and "myself"?!?!

Its "My colleague and I". It is only myself I you're saying "I work by myself" or similar.

You know it's not just Mumsnet surely, it's all over the place, I find it really grating too. I had a letter from a local business wanting my custom and referred to me as yourself , I'm really not sure I can use them

*It’s happened again this year. My manager is asking me if I have objections to all these holiday requests from her for all of the best dates. I don’t want to appear unprofessional but I’m fed up of this.

Should I object and out my own counter dates in and let my manager decide?*

Yes. And if you don't say you have an objection, then you can't really moan about it any more and will just have to put up with it.

@PleasantVille
It's almost every thread on this site! Someone will have said it almost every thread. That and loose when they mean lose. I can handle anything else but those 2 thing drive me absolutely mad.

Perhaps I do lead a very boring life; booking my holidays in advance and now this.

I know how you feel Op, I work in a group of three and my workmates don't get on and both of them will try to grab the best holidays just to spite the other. They both bitch to me about it but never seem to notice it means I never get the best dates! I don't care about it and find it quite funny but you need to pull up your big girl pants and sort this

She was saying that she has plans for those two weeks at Easter

So she claims to have booked stuff without having holiday approval? Risky thing to do...

Time to stand up for yourself. Book it off if you want. And tell your manager that big holidays should be shared between the team so that no one person gets everything off.

I'm an annoying early holiday booker...

Covid aside [sigh], we try to go to the US every Easter holidays. In order to be able to afford this, I book my flights as soon as they become available to get the best deals (I know roughly what I'm happy to pay and track flight prices accordingly). This has caused the odd issue in the past, so I get pre-authorisation from my managers (our holiday calendar wouldn't be open for that period when booking), and then book the time once the calendars are open. It's the same with summer holidays - in order to get the booking we want, we need to book a long time in advance (9-12 months).

It's not meant to be CFery in my case, but it's how I plan my holidays.

There is a surprisingly large number of actual grown up, adult, supposedly-mature people who genuinely believe that their wanting something is a fully acceptable, non-negotiable justification for them to have it - and thus, in many cases, why somebody else shouldn't have it.

I always think of it as the Szyslak Defence, from the episode of The Simpsons, where Moe the bartender is being dragged out and arrested by the police on behalf of the IRS, for non-payment:

Police Officer: "You've got to pay your taxes, Mr Szyslak."
Moe: "BUT I DON'T WAAAAAANT TO!!!!!!!!!"

People asking how she always manages to get in there first and why can’t OP beat her to it: some –CFs— people have no shame as to what methods they’ll employ. They’ll bombard/hijack the boss at a very inconsiderate time – leaving for a meeting, dashing to the loo, still taking their coat off having just arrived. Considerate people will avoid inconvenient moments, but selfish people will just barge straight in there. For all we know, depending on their working relationship dynamic, she might even be phoning the boss at home ‘for a friendly catch-up’ and then “Oh, by the way, I’ll need two weeks at Easter as I’ve got an important family event happening”. You also don’t know whether she’s a ‘requester’ or an ‘assumer’, who will mumble the vaguest of comments about her holiday plans and then later insist until she’s blue in the face that it’s all been discussed and agreed - or, at the very least, "You never said there might be a problem when I told you".

All of that comes down to bad management.

@EmmaStone

I'm an annoying early holiday booker...

Covid aside [sigh], we try to go to the US every Easter holidays. In order to be able to afford this, I book my flights as soon as they become available to get the best deals (I know roughly what I'm happy to pay and track flight prices accordingly). This has caused the odd issue in the past, so I get pre-authorisation from my managers (our holiday calendar wouldn't be open for that period when booking), and then book the time once the calendars are open. It's the same with summer holidays - in order to get the booking we want, we need to book a long time in advance (9-12 months).

It's not meant to be CFery in my case, but it's how I plan my holidays.

@EmmaStone Do you ever worry that you are preventing other colleagues from going on holiday at Easter, or getting their first choice of summer holiday?

There is a surprisingly large number of actual grown up, adult, supposedly-mature people who genuinely believe that their wanting something is a fully acceptable, non-negotiable justification for them to have it - and thus, in many cases, why somebody else shouldn't have it.

It's strange, isn't it. I have worked in places where Christmas/New year had to be covered and we always worked together to split it evenly across the team year on year and feel lucky that I have never had to deal with one of those entitled adults.

Honestly, from what you’ve posted so far, you sound like one of those annoying people who expect others to run around after you, read your mind and then feel sorry for yourself when things don’t go your way.

Are you the OP’s colleague??

I surmise that you are one of the holiday grabbers.

I’m with @WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll. Well said.

Emma - I don't think there's necessarily a problem with that, unless you know that others want/can only go in the same weeks. The big problem, like OP is experiencing, is when the same person wants EVERY single prime date in the year.

A little consideration and give-and-take doesn't go amiss. Whilst nobody has a right to any specific date, some colleagues find that it works best for everybody (with mutual agreement) for people with young kids to have Christmas and for the younger child-free colleagues to have New Year.

Multicultural workplaces can also help here, so people can have their own religious/cultural holy/celebratory days off work whilst people for whom they're just an ordinary day are more than happy to work them.

I don’t understand how she can be booking early and getting the best dates but then also ending up having leave left? Do you actually want those dates or just don’t want her to have them or don’t want to cover during the period she’s chosen? She doesn’t need to negotiate her leave with you, if you choose the same dates then you need to negotiate with each other, or personally I think your manager needs to do it as a neutral party. Do you have a date that booking for annual leave opens? If not I would suggest that to you manager. If you want peak holiday times then you do need to book early but you should both be given the opportunity to do so

All of that comes down to bad management.

Oh, I agree - but it doesn't help OP. It's the standard operating procedure of the CF to act unreasonably, relying on the fact that others would feel far too uncomfortable to ever do the same - or indeed to pull them up on it.

your manager has given you the solution. submit your own dates and let manager decide who has the leave.

in my place our calendar opens officially for the next year on 1 January in every year. However, if we wanted time off in january we'd have to submit the relevant form prior to year end the previous year and clear it with managers etc.

by the end of January we are expected to have our 2 weeks mandatory leave booked in.

there is a colleague who always leaves the remainder of their leave until December, so is rarely in the office (which is our busiest time really - trying to get things done before year end).

Thankfully our company doesn't really work that way, as long as there's someone around, and TBH that's then management's job to ensure they haven't given too many people holiday at the same time. My colleagues don't tend to take much time in the school holidays (no kids), so luckily it's not really been a big problem. We all shut at Xmas, so no issue there either. I would absolutely be willing to take things in turns though if it were a problem, but I would want the discussion to be WAY in advance as that's when I'd need to be booking - I simply wouldn't be able to afford to book the holiday I wanted if I waited until 3 months beforehand or whatever.

I don’t understand how she can be booking early and getting the best dates but then also ending up having leave left

It's because she is grabbing all the bank holiday weeks.

By taking the week either side of Easter, one of the May Bank Holiday weeks and the August Bank holiday week, she can have 4 full weeks off for only 16 days of annual leave.

If OP wants to take full weeks to be able to go away for the same number of breaks and has to take different dates, then it will cost her 20 days, possibly not leaving any extra for the 3 days between Xmas and New Year (although she will of course have had the long weekends)

Sounds like all is well if OP has requested some of the other bank holiday weeks.

Now we just have to hope that we are all able to travel by then!

@TroysMammy

Myself and another colleague both work 2 1/2 days a week. When it comes to booking holidays she marks off some of her rostered days off as not available for certain events, preventing anyone else having that week off and then she separately books her holidays taking the 2 1/2 days before the week off. I've got no problem with the latter because when I book a week off I also mark off my rostered days off so I get more than a week holiday.

I think she should book her holidays first and then mark her rostered days off as not available.

I don't see why marking the dates she doesn't work as not available is an issue. She's not realistically going to take for, say a hospital appointment so has booked it for a day off and said she can't cover.

I’ve worked in loads of places where “first come first served” is absolutely NOT the way it works.

If someone puts in leave for the full year, then the rest of the team are given a couple weeks to make their requests before that persons leave is authorised. If there’s a clash of dates then they’re shared out so everyone gets at least one of their requested periods of leave. Doing anything else is just lazy management IMO.

@WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll

All of that comes down to bad management.

Oh, I agree - but it doesn't help OP. It's the standard operating procedure of the CF to act unreasonably, relying on the fact that others would feel far too uncomfortable to ever do the same - or indeed to pull them up on it.

But you don’t agree, because you think her colleague is acting unreasonably, a CF, and should be pulled up. I think it comes down to bad management. The manager is being paid more to sort out these kind of issues. If it was up to OP and her colleague to self police, there would be no need for a manager.

But you don’t agree, because you think her colleague is acting unreasonably, a CF, and should be pulled up. I think it comes down to bad management. The manager is being paid more to sort out these kind of issues. If it was up to OP and her colleague to self police, there would be no need for a manager.

I think I sort of agree, then - I was probably a bit harsh lumping colleague in with some of the worst CFs out there. I doubt the manager's only purpose is to make sure they play nicely, though.

Yes - she has leave left because she uses the bank holiday weeks to supplement her annual leave entitlement.

I think it has caused some problems because you manager has now asked to speak to me. I think I was expected to just agree to the request. I hope I’m wrong.

@Florelei when I worked in a hospital, there was a book where people wrote dates request in. Once everybody had done so the manager went through it fairly and as much as possible okayed them. Obviously there where clashes but managed to resolve them through negotiation.

The OP’s colleague is being unreasonable and refuses to discuss a compromise. That’s the issue, not the OP’s willingness to plan holidays twelve months in advance. She has already told us that the date on which holiday bookings open is a mystery every year

Are you saying the colleague can't book in advance because OP doesn't know if she wants the holidays yet? A lot of people book holidays for the following year, a lot of parents need to know if they can be off during school holidays or need to book childcare, etc.

Op, just book the dates you want and let her come to you if there is a conflict with hers! You say you don't know when the booking system opens, but that doesn't explain why she always manages to book before you... if she can so can you.

Yes you need to object.

And in future, make sure you request the dates before your colleague does!

You don't need to discuss it with your collegue. You can't trust them anyway.

In the past I have requested time off 6 months+ in advance because I knew my colleague would play dirty even if we discussed it.

Never trust a work colleague.