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Colleague and annual leave

193 replies

Florelei · 25/11/2020 06:54

It’s getting to that time of year again. I have a colleague who I actually get on well with - we are good as a team and work well together. Our strengths compliment each other in a good way.

However, we have the same problem every year. Every year before I can get a look in they request holiday for all of the best dates. Every year I ask if we can sit down and agree a fair split of the holidays around Easter, bank holidays and Christmas and each year nothing changes. This invariably means that she’s always got more holidays left than me at the end of the year and can take at least a week off which I then have to cover. The week is nearly always taken at our busy period.

It’s happened again this year. My manager is asking me if I have objections to all these holiday requests from her for all of the best dates. I don’t want to appear unprofessional but I’m fed up of this.

Should I object and out my own counter dates in and let my manager decide?

I spoke to colleague yesterday and said i thought we’d agreed that we would talk about the best dates and perhaps take a week off each at Easter. She told me she didn’t think she needed to discuss this with me because ‘it’s standard stuff’.

She also said that she never knows when I am off as I don’t tell her - which is not true - it just goes in one ear and out of the other.

I’m at a loss as to how to deal with this! Please help me.

OP posts:
Chloemol · 25/11/2020 09:15

Yes talk to your manager. You should each take turns to choose a week. We had holiday charts based on grade, then within that length of service you all choose your first two weeks which had to be together, then after that a week at a time. It was the only fair way b

donquixotedelamancha · 25/11/2020 09:17

Also, I don’t think assuming that someone who has agreed to discuss holidays and allocate them fairly will actually do so makes me a martyr.

You are right, OP, you aren't quite there. Being a martyr involves making passive aggressive statements about how hard done to you are, and pretending to blame yourself for the problem while actually claiming the moral high ground.

Perhaps I am too ready to think the best of people. I wouldn’t do that to someone else.

Oh, never mind- you nailed it.

fullofhope100 · 25/11/2020 09:19

@purpledagger

You absolutely need to put in your own requests, otherwise the situation will never change. Key dates such as Easter, Christmas and the Summer shouldn't be booked on a first come, first serve basis in my opinion.
Agree!
planningaheadtoday · 25/11/2020 09:20

Years ago my team manager would come to the door and shout that slips were starting to come in for AL. She'd say get your slips into me quickly so I can organise this fairly.

Then it would be written up on a big year planner wipe board in the office so we could see who would be off and when.

I only worked Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday so my leave usually wasn't a problem as most people would request Fridays off to make long weekends, whereas I would request a Monday.

Your manager has done the equivalent of yelling at the door for your requests. Get some high day and holiday requests in so you are not resenting your colleague. But leave enough in hand to adapt plans should you need.

Apple40 · 25/11/2020 09:26

I used to have this and the one year I actually got in first for Christmas my colleague complained to the boss and they tried to tell me I could not have my all ready agreed dates . I pointed out if you check the records for past 8 + years you will see I have always worked all of Christmas and she is always off so no I will not be cancelling my plans and coming in. Any way the all worked in my favour the boss checked records and my holiday stood. After that it was going to go in to a hat so it was decided up fairly. No idea if worked as I left in the next year t have a baby and did not go back.

AcornAutumn · 25/11/2020 09:26

You say she gets the holiday because she asks earlier

You need to get in earlier then

You say the they don’t tell you when the calendar opens, so check it daily. Keep it open and refresh it if need be.

If it’s open to negotiation, then negotiate. Not complicated.

Forwardingoff · 25/11/2020 09:31

@Iamthewombat it’s absolutely this. I couldn’t book immediately and didn’t want to. It’s people who book package holidays 2 years in advance who are able to do this. I think these people lead incredibly boring lives, do they not have last minute invites, book tickets or arrange long weekends away at a couple of months notice?

OP if you want to be petty, next year get in first with your request but just book one day, right in the middle of each desirable week like easter. She can’t have a holiday then and I’m sure she’d suddenly be open to negotiation.

IrmaFayLear · 25/11/2020 09:31

I think it’s fair enough to book way in advance for big trips, eg a honeymoon or a family reunion, trip of a lifetime etc.

However, as pps have said, Christmas and so on should be turn and turn about. Bil worked at airport and obviously there no shut down for high days and holidays there (in normal times) and time off was all rostered. People would “sell” their leave to others, eg I’ll work Christmas Day for 3 days of your leave. This worked very well.

TheTurnOfTheScrew · 25/11/2020 09:31

Take your boss up on her offer! Your colleague clearly has no concerns about fairness or turn taking, so I wouldn't think twice.

Every year in my office there are grumbles about who didn't get their leave granted. It's pretty standard for people to have to compromise on leave at periods of high demand, and your colleague is lucky this hasn't come up for her before.

wibdib · 25/11/2020 09:35

If there are weeks that are known to be busy, I would also flag those up to the manager, even if you don’t actually want to be off that week.

Just say that colleague has had busy week off for the last umpteen year’s so you would like her to work it herself to see what it’s like (either with or without you there) for a change.

That’s in addition to asking for holidays when you’d like them too obviously!

Bibidy · 25/11/2020 09:43

It's annoying when people do this. I once worked in a place where only 2 people had school-age children and, without fail, one of them would come in with all of their holiday requests for the year on 1st Jan. He would request EVERY half term, 2 weeks right in the middle of the summer holiday, the days around Christmas etc etc. It was really unfair.

The only thing you can do is speak to your boss about key dates and say it's not fair someone always gets them all.

You might be cutting off your nose to spite your face just randomly booking off every bank holiday week though! You might need your holiday genuinely at another time.

fassbendersmistress · 25/11/2020 09:46

I think you need to work on being more assertive. You were unhappy with this situation already yet....

  1. Did not use your initiative to book holidays first.
  2. Did not talk about it with colleague early on to agree dates.
  3. When asked by boss, you gave it the ok when it wasn’t ok. (Clue: If it would have been unprofessional to say no your boss would not have asked you)
  4. When you challenged your colleague, you accepted her first answer despite having the opportunity to go in prepared to have a proper discussion.

People aren’t mind readers. Your colleague is perhaps behaving twatishly but are enabling it and allowing it to go unchallenged so either speak up or put up....

ToDoListAddict · 25/11/2020 09:47

I totally sympathise with you.
My colleague and I have to cover each other so I'd assume we'd discuss holidays before booking. But for the last few years she has just booked all the bank holiday weeks without discussing anything.
Then one day the conversation came round to holidays and she was saying how happy she was that we're so flexible with each other on holidays. Because I don't have children (but she does) so I don't need any of the half terms off and luckily the half terms fell on bank holiday weeks so she didn't have to use up as much holiday!
She also always books Christmas Eve off. I'm never allowed that option. Not even on a rota so we alternate years.
So I just had enough and booked as much holiday as I could in 2021 using the bank holidays. I don't even have plans!

Genevieva · 25/11/2020 09:47

You say that these are the exact dates you hoped for and, as she has had her preferred dates in previous years, it is your turn.

Bibidy · 25/11/2020 09:56

People saying OP should have booked the dates first - most normal people don't have all of their holiday dates ironed out a year in advance!

OP might actually want to go away somewhere or plan dates with someone else like her parents or friends - she shouldn't have to book all of her holiday on day 1 of the new year just so this other person can't hog all of the bank holidays and special occasions!

christinarossetti19 · 25/11/2020 10:00

You can bypass the word 'objection' and just say that they clash with the dates that you were hoping to book annual leave for.

Then give your manger the dates that you would like to take your leave.

I think you do need to talk to your colleague about her not respecting your request for you to work out dates before submitting formal requests. But it's no wonder that she does this if you keep suggesting this then not saying anything when she takes no notice!

BoudiccaD · 25/11/2020 10:05

Should I object and out my own counter dates in and let my manager decide

I'd have done this the year after she started this. I'd make sure I got my request in before her.

BuggerationFlavouredCrisps · 25/11/2020 10:06

@Florelei

Also, I don’t think assuming that someone who has agreed to discuss holidays and allocate them fairly will actually do so makes me a martyr.

Perhaps I am too ready to think the best of people. I wouldn’t do that to someone else.

You’re obviously not prepared to listen to what people are telling you.

Honestly, from what you’ve posted so far, you sound like one of those annoying people who expect others to run around after you, read your mind and then feel sorry for yourself when things don’t go your way.

You’re an adult and it’s 100% YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to say what you want/need.

It isn’t for your colleagues or your manager to sort out your holidays.

To be brutal OP, you are not a kind person because you’re blaming others for your own failings.

TroysMammy · 25/11/2020 10:08

Myself and another colleague both work 2 1/2 days a week. When it comes to booking holidays she marks off some of her rostered days off as not available for certain events, preventing anyone else having that week off and then she separately books her holidays taking the 2 1/2 days before the week off. I've got no problem with the latter because when I book a week off I also mark off my rostered days off so I get more than a week holiday.

I think she should book her holidays first and then mark her rostered days off as not available.

WhereverIGoddamnLike · 25/11/2020 10:09

@Forwardingoff

10 years ago, the only way I could afford a big holiday was to book it a couple of years in advance and pay it off in installments and put spending money aside each month. Sorry if that meant I "lead a boring life".
Now that I can afford to do things differently, I'm not judging the people who need to plan expenses carefully in advance.

Hardbackwriter · 25/11/2020 10:10

[quote Forwardingoff]@Iamthewombat it’s absolutely this. I couldn’t book immediately and didn’t want to. It’s people who book package holidays 2 years in advance who are able to do this. I think these people lead incredibly boring lives, do they not have last minute invites, book tickets or arrange long weekends away at a couple of months notice?

OP if you want to be petty, next year get in first with your request but just book one day, right in the middle of each desirable week like easter. She can’t have a holiday then and I’m sure she’d suddenly be open to negotiation.[/quote]
Or people who need the leave for childcare...

I also don't like booking my leave a long way in advance (in part because I save a lot in case I need it for child illness) but I therefore accept that I might get a limited choice. The colleague can't be expected to not book a holiday at Easter because the OP may or may not want to have time off then?

WhereverIGoddamnLike · 25/11/2020 10:12

What is it with mumsnet and "myself"?!?!

Its "My colleague and I". It is only myself I you're saying "I work by myself" or similar.

HeronLanyon · 25/11/2020 10:13

Definitely speak to your manager. Explain that for x years you’ve never been able to take ‘best dates’ and want there to be some fairness about things now. Put your request dates in. Suggest a way forward where each gets priority one year or for one best period. Ask for clarity about how it can be fairer in future.

LilyLongJohn · 25/11/2020 10:14

Offer up the dates you want with your manager and let them decide. Offer to compromise, she gets Easter, you get Xmas, 3 weeks each over summer holidays etc.

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 25/11/2020 10:16

I spoke to colleague yesterday and said i thought we’d agreed that we would talk about the best dates and perhaps take a week off each at Easter. She told me she didn’t think she needed to discuss this with me because ‘it’s standard stuff’.

That's a complete non-justification - just a slightly less harsh way of sticking two fingers up at you.

She was saying that she has plans for those two weeks at Easter

Her plans can be summed up as ‘to get the prime fortnight off instead of colleague’. Like most people – especially those with kids at school - don’t have plans for those two weeks.... Hmm

People asking how she always manages to get in there first and why can’t OP beat her to it: some –CFs— people have no shame as to what methods they’ll employ. They’ll bombard/hijack the boss at a very inconsiderate time – leaving for a meeting, dashing to the loo, still taking their coat off having just arrived. Considerate people will avoid inconvenient moments, but selfish people will just barge straight in there. For all we know, depending on their working relationship dynamic, she might even be phoning the boss at home ‘for a friendly catch-up’ and then “Oh, by the way, I’ll need two weeks at Easter as I’ve got an important family event happening”. You also don’t know whether she’s a ‘requester’ or an ‘assumer’, who will mumble the vaguest of comments about her holiday plans and then later insist until she’s blue in the face that it’s all been discussed and agreed - or, at the very least, "You never said there might be a problem when I told you".

Just out of interest, is she an avid Daily Mail reader? Every single year, without fail, they have an article telling you how you can get ‘more’ annual leave, giving you all the dates to get off to maximise days around bank holidays. AFAIK, they never think to mention that you might want to discuss with colleagues to ensure that everybody gets a fair crack of the whip (or even whether your boss/job requirements will allow all of those dates). In fact, I think some people see it as an academic hobby to both maximise the number of full weeks off for minimal annual leave outlay and also to steal a march on their colleagues by jumping in there first.

If nobody tells you when the calendar is one how is she always getting in first?

Because she knows the right person to badger about it, rather than waiting for the announcement like everybody else. It might be her best friend who gives her the nod for this precise reason.

My manager is asking me if I have objections to all these holiday requests from her for all of the best dates. That's a very leading question. 'objections'? If you answer 'yes' you will sound obstreperous.

“Thank you for bringing this up: yes, unsurprisingly, I do have concerns about fairness in this matter.”

Moreover, I wonder if the colleague is getting in there first because she specifically has plans for those ‘best’ dates or whether she is just doing it because she doesn’t want OP to take them. I get the FCFS idea, but I still don’t think it’s necessarily the fairest way. It’s not a personal failing to not know from the beginning of the year every single day of annual leave you might want or need. Some people have highly routine lives, whereas others need more flexibility – childcare, health-related needs, family emergencies, job interviews etc. etc. – it doesn’t make one of them right and the other wrong. It’s interesting how people who have their whole month’s salary already ‘spent’ on pay day, with no allowance for whatever circumstances may arise, are considered careless and foolish; but those who prefer (or have no choice but) to see how things go and not rush right in are told it’s just tough: 'you snooze, you lose'.

It’s a bit like those people who were stockpiling toilet rolls and pasta in massive quantities – not because they expected to need all of it over the next weeks, but because they were afraid just in case others might leave them with reduced options. They had the time to go shopping, the money to pay for it all upfront, transport to get it home, big homes with plenty of storage space. Is it ‘fair’ for somebody who works long hours on NMW, has to get the bus and lives in a small flat to not be able to buy one pack of toilet rolls because somebody else has been in the position to buy 100 packs?