Colleague and annual leave

[Florelei]

It’s getting to that time of year again. I have a colleague who I actually get on well with - we are good as a team and work well together. Our strengths compliment each other in a good way.

However, we have the same problem every year. Every year before I can get a look in they request holiday for all of the best dates. Every year I ask if we can sit down and agree a fair split of the holidays around Easter, bank holidays and Christmas and each year nothing changes. This invariably means that she’s always got more holidays left than me at the end of the year and can take at least a week off which I then have to cover. The week is nearly always taken at our busy period.

It’s happened again this year. My manager is asking me if I have objections to all these holiday requests from her for all of the best dates. I don’t want to appear unprofessional but I’m fed up of this.

Should I object and out my own counter dates in and let my manager decide?

I spoke to colleague yesterday and said i thought we’d agreed that we would talk about the best dates and perhaps take a week off each at Easter. She told me she didn’t think she needed to discuss this with me because ‘it’s standard stuff’.

She also said that she never knows when I am off as I don’t tell her - which is not true - it just goes in one ear and out of the other.

I’m at a loss as to how to deal with this! Please help me.

If your manager has raised it they’ve seen an issue so don’t feel bad.

My manager used to do this every year, would put his in first thing on the day it opened and signed it off for himself, no discussion ever alerted him to how unfair it was.

I once worked with someone who put Christmas leave in in January every year. It meant we stopped doing FCFS and went to a negotiation system otherwise managers would draw names out of a hat. It worked much better.

I don’t understand. I’d it isn’t first come, first served how is your colleague always beating you to the holiday you want?

You need the manager to email in advance when the calendar opens for the next year. Then you have the choice to also make some bookings on the first day.

Dig your heels in for Christmas!

At my work, we all submit holiday requests for Xmas, easter, school summer holidays etc to our manager. It has to be in a specific time window (like 2 months before the holidays). The manager then works out staffing and who can go on holiday when. It works really well in general. But we are a small team who get on, and no one takes the piss like your colleague is doing.

You should object.

It’s insane that you don’t speak up! My colleague take it in turns for holidays every year. It’s usually just Christmas and NY though. This year I’ll be working Christmas and have NY off. Next year I’ll be off for Christmas.

I used to work with someone like this. When you're a small team it needs to be fair.
We ended up having first come first served apart from Easter, summer hols and Christmas which you put your requests in by a set date. Then if there was a clash they could be allocated fairly.

When I worked in an office the rule was everyone booked 2 weeks, then everyone booked an additional week and then finally everyone booked their remaining leave. There were obviously rules around who couldn't be off together and how many could be off at one time but at least everyone got a fair crack of the whip. If your colleague can't play fair then maybe you need to suggest a similar system.
Your boss has obviously seen the unfairness here and has given you the ideal opportunity to sort it out. Don't miss out on this chance - you may not get it again! List the leave you want and mark it in order of importance to you and let your boss sort it out.

@bigbluebus

When I worked in an office the rule was everyone booked 2 weeks, then everyone booked an additional week and then finally everyone booked their remaining leave. There were obviously rules around who couldn't be off together and how many could be off at one time but at least everyone got a fair crack of the whip. If your colleague can't play fair then maybe you need to suggest a similar system. Your boss has obviously seen the unfairness here and has given you the ideal opportunity to sort it out. Don't miss out on this chance - you may not get it again! List the leave you want and mark it in order of importance to you and let your boss sort it out.

Similar to this, in one company I worked for.

OP, don't be a pushover. It's not 'unprofessional' to ask for holidays that suit you. Your manager obviously sees that there is an issue. Ask clearly for the dates that you want. If there's a clash, let the manager decide on fair distribution of popular dates.

Put in your own request but in most work places, it is first come first serve.
If you know she books them up in advance as soon as holiday requests for the coming year are being accepted then why havent you started doing that to? Particularly if you have children, most people with kids book school holidays they need off as soon as holiday requests open. Why arent you?

Do it for yourself of course. However:

You may be helping your manager tackle the issue (some managers are conflict avoiders) and perhaps even helping your colleague in a strange way, depending on their home life. They may be being put upon by their OH on childcare arrangements during holidays and this will help them get their OH to pull their weight.

I find this a bit tricky. I have to confirm my holiday with someone else, she likes to book spontaneously. Whenever I ask about a date its always "well I don't know if I'm doing anything". I'm more organised and like to book in advance. I've missed out on holidays with family and friends because of it.

I would love to be able to whack all my requests in!

She's asked for what she'd like, your boss has asked if that's OK before confirming. If it's not a compromise will be reached. It sounds like a perfectly normal situation to me.

If you don't know what you want yet, how do you know she wants all the "best" dates. It's very normal to book main holidays at the start of the year (or end of the previous one) IME.

My manager is asking me if I have objections to all these holiday requests from her for all of the best dates. That's a very leading question. 'objections'? If you answer 'yes' you will sound obstreperous.
It's bad management. I don't care how small the team is, holiday is not for staff to fight over, it's for managers to manage.

Tell your manager you don't appreciate or accept the term 'objections' and that you would simply like a fair split of the most popular holiday times, thanks very much.

Managers are supposed to manage their staff, you are absolutely not doing anything provocative by asking for what you want. Not a compromise that you think would be fair - what you actually want. Your colleague has done this.

Your manager is trying to balance the interests of you both and keep a happy team - if you don’t tell him/her what you want, this makes their job impossible!

I know it seems unlikely but I used to be a real pushover. It doesn’t make you popular, it just makes you bottom of the heap.

@Florelei

Also, I don’t think assuming that someone who has agreed to discuss holidays and allocate them fairly will actually do so makes me a martyr.

Perhaps I am too ready to think the best of people. I wouldn’t do that to someone else.

I think most people wouldn’t see it like that. I don’t discuss my plans with my colleagues, I discuss them with my family and put my leave request in accordingly. If there was a clash I’d expect my manager to deconflict it with a reasonable compromise, which I’d accept with good grace (if it was fair overall) and change my plans around that. But I wouldn’t agree in advance with someone of equivalent seniority to not ask for what I wanted. It’s the manager that’s in the wrong here, not your colleague.

Put in your own request but in most work places, it is first come first serve.

First come, first SERVED, not first come, first SERVE.

If you know she books them up in advance as soon as holiday requests for the coming year are being accepted then why havent you started doing that to? Particularly if you have children, most people with kids book school holidays they need off as soon as holiday requests open. Why arent you?

Because she may not want to? Because she might not be able to, if other family members can’t commit a year in advance? Does it matter why? The OP’s colleague is being unreasonable and refuses to discuss a compromise. That’s the issue, not the OP’s willingness to plan holidays twelve months in advance. She has already told us that the date on which holiday bookings open is a mystery every year.

Whenever I've worked in a team there were booking rules.
So everyone submitted a 10 day and a 5 day request and they were given based on seniority then the calendar was open and anyone could book anything else on a first come first served.
There were always compromises as a couldn't be off with c etc.

Speak to your manager

We are a very small team so we are told to agree our holidays.

My manager is asking me if I have objections to all these holiday requests from her for all of the best dates.

Not sure why, but I'm getting the subtle impression your manager wants you to tell them what dates you want.

First up, best dressed.

I saw and booked a holiday for next year in April this year, (lockdown madness) the first thing DH and I did was book the leave and then the trip, DH's manager called and asked if it was a typo, we said no, he said I would love to be that organised.

Put in your own request but in most work places, it is first come first serve.

First come, first SERVED, not first come, first SERVE.

Oh my God, PP missed a letter! You are right that deserves a Caps-lock rant. Typing on a phone is no excuse to lower the normally exceptional quality of MN prose.

I book my leave straight away as soon as the calendar opens as I need childcare in the holidays. It doesn't usually matter as most people in the team want different dates but I have made it clear to the one person it may effect if she let's me know I can try to get childcare. Shes asked and I changed few times now. Its fine it works. It needs to be fine.

However, we have the same problem every year. Every year before I can get a look in they request holiday for all of the best dates.

If you know it's going to happen, why don't you make sure you get in first?

Anyway, like PP suggested, let your manager sort it. You sound a bit passive.

@feministbias

Whenever I've worked in a team there were booking rules. So everyone submitted a 10 day and a 5 day request and they were given based on seniority then the calendar was open and anyone could book anything else on a first come first served. There were always compromises as a couldn't be off with c etc.

Speak to your manager

I wouldn't be thrilled with a seniority based system either to be honest, although I can see where it comes from. It just means that the newer employees are likely to be left with the less favourable leave. It might not be a problem if staff turnover is high but if it's the kind of place where people stay for years I think it's particularly unfair.

This is such a weird thread. The solution has been obvious for years, and now your boss has handed you another solution on a plate, and you're here agonising about what to do?!