How can Ann Sacolas live with her actions?

[GrumblyMumblyisnotJumbly]

Fell so dreadfully sorry for Harry Dunn's family. The high court has ruled that Ann Sacolas DID have diplomatic immunity. She did not work at the base. She drove on the wrong side of the road. She caused Harry's death. She has not taken responsibility for her actions. How would she feel if it had been her child killed?

@RunningFromInsanity

I understand Harry Dunn’s family want justice but at this point the witch hunt is too much.

It was an accident, she took advice, and the advice was (wrongly or rightly) to leave.

She has a young child, she doesn’t want to risk being imprisoned in a foreign country.

If someone offered you the choice-
A) Stay, get a criminal record for death by dangerous driving, possibly prison
or
B) Leave now, go home and don’t return.

Which would you really choose?
Would your ‘moral compass’ really outweigh your self preservation, your freedom and your family life? I highly doubt it.

I live near the airbase and it is worryingly common how many people drive out of the gates and onto the wrong side of the road.

That's a very compassionate and 'from the other side' perspective. We shouldn't assume that despite Sacoolas' actions she doesn't feel guilty or regretful.... she might want want to appear as such, but that could easily be a protective armour that so many of us put around ourselves. We can think this without denying that she did the wrong thing.

[quote ancientgran]@PabloHoneyBee so funny but it wasn't what i said was it? I said they weren't keen on their citizens being extradited, that would involve putting you on a plane and sending you somewhere else. I hope that explains it for you.[/quote]
Sorry, no, I don't get what you mean here at all? Did you mean to say that WOULDN'T involve putting me on a plane?

Ok, but she was put on a plane...because she is a US military wife...but you just said it wasn't anything to do with her being a military wife it was because the US doesn't like extraditing their citizens? So..which is it please ?

I'm glad you found my joke funny. I enjoyed that one too! Imagining giving old Trump face a call some day because I'd nicked a bottle of wine from Waitrose 😂😂😂.

Yes you're right that's exactly what I said

It was exactly what you implied.

Even things that are not deliberate have consequences that must be faced.

My DM (69) was killed by a pensioner driving on the wrong side of the road. He killed another younger woman too and badly injured her husband.
Suspended sentence and a fine.
I still don't know how I feel about that four years on.

I’m surprised at the number of posters defending the woman and questioning whether others would do the same given the choice.

It actually wasn’t an accident. It was a collision that happened because she made a fatal error. To call it an accident suggests that it was something that no one had any control over, which is clearly not true. She caused someone’s death by careless driving at least.

Whatever advice she was given, she should have done the morally decent thing and handed herself over to the British justice system, to be dealt with as the law dictated.

What she did was despicable and shameful, especially given that she is a mother herself.

Nothing will bring that boy back, but as part of the family’s grieving process, having the perpetrator face justice, is a large part of that process.

IcedPurple completely agree.
I also hate it when Caroline flack is wheeled out as some sort of life lesson. #bekind as far as I can tell just means put up with or forget others' bad behaviour

Why would her going to court for sentencing be leaving children without their mother? Its not going to be permanent is it? Not like Harry Dunn's family are without him.

She must be as hard as nails. Driving around as bold as brass. And other people getting penalised for speeding. It makes me sick. His poor parents.

I know a family with 2 primary school aged children who lost their dad last year in a road traffic accident caused by another person's dangerous driving. Court case still to come & it's pretty important to her that they get justice for the loss of their loved one. That the person whose actions have caused their loss is held to account. Someone else's actions mean he will be not there for his children's assemblies, their birthdays, their first date, their wedding, to be a grandad.It was a mistake. It was also dangerous driving and, for the people missing a loved one, it matters.

@ancientgran

I imagine that if I were in AS's position I'd have done all I could to make amends: go to police, face consequences, apologies to the Dunn family, donation towards funeral or a cause that was in their interests. All that may have served to help them feel a little better; at least, justice would have been served. Would any of that really make people feel any better about their child being dead? Particularly the donation towards the funeral, that would enrage me not make me feel better.

Nothing would make anyone feel better about their child being dead, but as the Dunns have been seeking justice since the outset then yes, I'd guess that AS facing the consequences and accepting any punishment is something they'd very much like to see. Do you those who kill others should just get a free pass?

As has been said before, justice is not all about undoing what's been done. If it were then there'd be no point in prosecuting anyone at all.

@cptartapp

My DM (69) was killed by a pensioner driving on the wrong side of the road. He killed another younger woman too and badly injured her husband. Suspended sentence and a fine. I still don't know how I feel about that four years on.

I am so sorry for your loss.

@cptartapp

My DM (69) was killed by a pensioner driving on the wrong side of the road. He killed another younger woman too and badly injured her husband. Suspended sentence and a fine. I still don't know how I feel about that four years on.

That's awful. I'm so sorry.

People stationed at US (RAF) bases in the U.K. are required to drive on the left side whilst on base and are to undertake orientation & driving classes. Base commanders take safety and relationships with communities very seriously. Her actions of ‘fleeing’ and not acknowledging the horrific damage she has caused is abhorrent.

@GrumblyMumblyisnotJumbly

Fell so dreadfully sorry for Harry Dunn's family. The high court has ruled that Ann Sacolas DID have diplomatic immunity. She did not work at the base. She drove on the wrong side of the road. She caused Harry's death. She has not taken responsibility for her actions. How would she feel if it had been her child killed?

I believe she should come back and face the consequences but in all honesty, unless you are an unbelievably good person with an actual moral compass would you?.

She has an out with diplomatic immunity, so can be at home scott free and the U.S is big enough that she wouldn't ever have to leave (I believe they said she could be arrested if she leaves?)

She probably would have had to serve very little time if any as an American citizen as it was an accident, but fleeing the country has made it so huge now that the whole country/world knows.

Does anyone know if she could come back, even if she wanted to? Early on I got the impression she was expecting to face the consequences but then was whisked away by the US, the implication being that whatever role her husband had, they didn't want her in a British court more than that she wanted to avoid it.

The problem with all of these kinds of threads is that none of us know what the actual story is.

I mean would the Americans let her face trial, even if she was willing?

This is awfully sad. A terrible loss for a young guy. Surely she should be charged for reckless/dangerous driving. How can they say she had diplomatic immunity. The whole case makes me rage. A recent video (a good few months back now) showed her going about her daily life like normal, as if nothing ever happened.

Yes it was an accident but any decent person would face the consequences, especially when a young man has died because of your actions. If she (or anyone else) was unable to safely manage driving on the US base, then driving on the correct side of the road in this country, then she had no business driving at all. I can't imagine she is losing any sleep about it given her appalling behaviour. I wonder what her friends and family think?

I can't believe she didn't have the decency to face the charges (which would have been extremely light).
Heartbreaking for Harry's friends and family to have to go through this.

@Sunbird24

I really think US military bases in the UK need to consider the impact of expecting people to switch between UK/US driving at the gate. Until they admit that it’s safer to implement UK driving rules on site then this is going to happen again.

There's a MASSIVE sign at the exit reminding drivers of the UK traffic rules. You'd need to be visually impaired not to see it.

I don't know how Anne Sacoolas sleeps at night; how she looks her own children in the eye. Well, if we can't have her back here to stand trial, I kind of hope that guilt eats her up for the rest of her life.

My thoughts are with Harry's family.

She’s covered under the Vienna Convention.

She went home ‘under advice’ of her government. Anyone who had ever been a military or diplomatic officer or spouse understand that ‘advice’ is very much ‘orders’. She’ll continue to follow orders because that’s just what you do as a diplomatic spouse.

I know of a case of an American marine based in the U.K. who was accused of rape. I promise you he was out of the U.K. before a single question could be asked by police.

@Divebar

I know of a case of an American marine based in the U.K. who was accused of rape. I promise you he was out of the U.K. before a single question could be asked by police.

Exactly but that will be because that's what his government ordered, rather than any personal decision he made - I daresay it suited him but he won't have had a choice.