I upset my friend who is having ivf

[Deepseafiver]

My friend and I are both 42. Neither of us has children. She is trying for a child with Ivf

During a facetime chat tonight she asked me if I ever considered trying for a baby now. I said no because I felt I was too old now. She got upset at this as she felt this was critical of her. I tried to explain that this was just personal to me. My parents had me very young and I can't get my head around being 60 and my kid bring a teenager. Both my parents were seriously ill in their early 50s and my Mum basically lost interst in my sister and I when she went through the menopause in her mid 40s. She came round to us again after but it was an awful time really. Luckily we were older but it would have bern awful if we had been small.

Im sure not all parents are like rhis but it makes me feel that for me its better to have them young or not at all.

How to I reassure her my feelings aren't a personal slight?

I'm lying next to a 4 month old I had at 42. No one has been so rude or insensitive to say I was too old. In fact people have been asking me whether I will have any more. Op has been hugely insensitive to someone she knows is going through ivf. bollocks. The OP didn’t tell the friend that she was too old to have a baby, she said that she, the OP, felt to old to have a baby. Or are people no longer entitled to make decisions for themselves because those decisions might upset someone else?

The friend asked the OP if she’d ever thought of having children. Even if she’d said no and left it at that, what if the friend had then asked why? Should the OP lie because it might hurt the friend.

Reality is that friend has been told by doctors that she is likely too old to have a successful IVF cycle. Most clinics won’t use the person’s own eggs beyond 35 and some at 40. At 42 her chances of IVF success are virtually 0, with some exception if she uses donor eggs.

When I was planning fertility treatment as a single woman my also single friend and I had a conversation where we managed to not offend each other despite her saying she wouldn't bring a child into the world without a dad and that she wanted the husband AND child and wouldn't have children without the whole package.

I was able to understand her view without feeling she was questioning mine and she has been fully supportive of the path I chose even though it's not what she would have done.

If your friend is so wobbly about what she's doing that what you said upset her then she's going to run into issues down the line if she's going to constantly doubt herself and her decision to do this.

A lot of posters seem to forget that OP doesn't have any children either. That might be by choice which is fine, or due to circumstances and due to her background she feels now she can't have any.
OP might be struggling herself.

It's very insensitive to ask a woman if she considered trying for a baby "at this age" and then get pissy when she says no .

She didn't think about upsetting you when she asked the question, did she?

And despite how fond of "no is a complete sentence" Mumsnet seems to be, I doubt your friend would have just taken that as an answer.

If she asks a woman of any age whether they would/ever consider trying for a baby now, she needs to be prepared that being put on the spot like that might well result in answers that aren't carefully thought through and formulated so as not to offend her delicate sensibilities.

I would leave it now OP. Don't bring it up again and don't try and further explain yourself.

It's very insensitive to ask a woman if she considered trying for a baby "at this age" and then get pissy when she says no

I agree with this. I think asking anyone about their future plans regarding children is very risky. You have absolutely no idea what someone else is going through. They may be just as offended by your question as you are by their answer.

Anything you say will somehow upset someone going through IVF.. I know this from experience as I've had IVF myself.. you feel completely alone like no one understands.

You haven't done anything wrong at all. How ever you think and feel is totally valid.. as is how she thinks and feels.

Give her some space she will be fine.. she will realise that she's been over sensitive. It's a difficult time for her. You'll make it worse trying to defend/justify yourself. Just be there when she needs you, that's all you can do.

Who knew this thread would become so fraught. I spoke to my friend this morning who called me to apologise for last night. She admitted she is a bit emotional at the moment which I totally understand and I apologised if my answer has been a bit bald. Again I don’t think 42 is too old to be a mum. If I wanted children I would probably do IVF myself but for reasons already discussed and because I’m happily child free I have no intention of trying for a baby, but that applies to me only.

My friend and I have been close for 30 years, she knows what I went through with my parents and my mother and we’re always honest with each other. I am very supportive of her attempts to have a child as her circumstances and family history are very different to mine.

You didn’t do anything wrong. Unless she’s been living under a rock, she can’t be unaware that if ivf is successful she’s likely to be an older mother with some of the risks that that brings. She is prepared to take those risks and you are not. Neither of you are wrong or right to do what suits your own personal circumstances. But, I do find on mumsnet there can be a bit of a collective ‘head in the sand’ about some of the realities about being an older parent. Yes many people manage perfectly well but it is not without risk.

Glad it's all sorted OP

I'm glad you and your friend have talked about this and it sounds like you sorted things out just fine :)

Bunniesitmustbebunnies
I’m in my 30s and feel too old to have any more kids!
Same! 😂 and I’m just 30.

@IceFrost let me guess — you had the good fortune to meet your partner young, the financial resources to feed and house a child as well as the time to raise one, and the blessing of one or more successful pregnancies that yielded your desired family size? It’s very easy from that vantage point to say you “simply couldn’t do it” but for those who aren’t so lucky it sounds really condescending.

If you are personally done having children or don’t want any that’s your own business of course. Or you may have some kind of disease or condition that causes you to prematurely feel the effects of aging. But if not I think it’s unusual to feel at 30 that your age would limit you from having a child. I don’t know you of course but I would suggest that someone who feels that way might want to work on improving their physical and mental health, not necessarily to have a baby but to feel strong, energetic, and capable enough to tackle other grueling challenges. Because those things will come up and believe me it doesn’t get any easier in your 40s and beyond!

I was thinking similar when I read that post ParrotheadRedux. I think it's really sad that a 30 year old would feel too old for anything really.

That’s great that you and your friend have spoken about it and smoothed it over.

Fertility related matters are so often fraught, including with respect to friendships.

I too am bemused by a thirty year old feeling too old for anything I was barely adult at thirty, yet to really feel free of childhood. I felt the world was there for me to choose from at that age.

That's a nice update OP, it sounds like a strong friendship

@Catsup

To be totally honest I think it's one of those instances of 'don't ask the question if you don't want to hear the answer 😕'.

I'm inclined to agree. Fertility does decline a lot in your 30s to make it really quite low by early 40s. Obviously people do get pregnancy at this age without any help. But many as your friend is doing need ivf. So really if you need help to get pregnant because yiur fertility is in natural decline then that kind of is too old for many people.

She knows this so really I think for her to be massively hurt is ott. But then ivf is hard so she's probably very sensitive.

[quote willitbetonight]@Standrewsschool I'm lying next to a 4 month old I had at 42. No one has been so rude or insensitive to say I was too old. In fact people have been asking me whether I will have any more. Op has been hugely insensitive to someone she knows is going through ivf. [/quote]
She didn't say you or her friend were too old though she said she was too old.

@XiCi

I was thinking similar when I read that post ParrotheadRedux. I think it's really sad that a 30 year old would feel too old for anything really.

It's not sad depending on the circumstances. I have many aches and pains. I'm constantly exhausted already. I get overwhelmed with all the things I need to do and remember.

Recognising your limits is not sad.

@CatbearAmo

To be honest, she didn't think about upsetting you when she asked the question. Maybe you can't afford the ivf or have found out it won't work for you. Maybe it's a decision you have struggled with. Maybe not but how does anyone else know? That is a thorny question to ask in the first place. I wouldn't go around asking difficult questions if I didn't want difficult answers. So I would explain you understand why she's upset but that it really is a personal question and everyone has a personal answer,

All of this

I had my first baby at 24 and my last at 33 and have very definitely felt too old for it since the last pregnancy. In fact o felt too old during it. It was so, so much harder physically in my 30s than my 20s. If I didn't have the earlier pregnancies to compare it to maybe I would have felt differently but I definitely understand feeling personally too old for childbearing in your early 30s.

@unmarkedbythat

I had my first baby at 24 and my last at 33 and have very definitely felt too old for it since the last pregnancy. In fact o felt too old during it. It was so, so much harder physically in my 30s than my 20s. If I didn't have the earlier pregnancies to compare it to maybe I would have felt differently but I definitely understand feeling personally too old for childbearing in your early 30s.

It's really interesting you say that about comparison. I have an autoimmune disease and I think maybe one of the reasons I don't always understand what people are saying on here is that I don't have those energetic or pain free younger years as a comparison. I suppose if people have never experienced chronic pain then the idea of the physical struggles that might come with older parenthood is unthinkable to them, but many people never had the option to avoid them or to be the stereotypical young and fit parent. To be honest it's a hard and long lesson to face up to even if that is your life, if it isn't then I can see it's something most people won't think about.

@unmarkedbythat

I had my first baby at 24 and my last at 33 and have very definitely felt too old for it since the last pregnancy. In fact o felt too old during it. It was so, so much harder physically in my 30s than my 20s. If I didn't have the earlier pregnancies to compare it to maybe I would have felt differently but I definitely understand feeling personally too old for childbearing in your early 30s.

Not surprised at this. My gran always said having kids ages you and so she didn’t want any of us to be in a rush to get married and have kids. I had my first child at 39 and have had several family members have 2nd / 3rd kids at that age or younger - I found I was the fittest and probably the most energetic out of the lot. But I imagine it’s harder to take care of yourself when you’re running after kids of any age.