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Original poster

I upset my friend who is having ivf

122 replies

Deepseafiver · 14/11/2020 02:43

My friend and I are both 42. Neither of us has children. She is trying for a child with Ivf

During a facetime chat tonight she asked me if I ever considered trying for a baby now. I said no because I felt I was too old now. She got upset at this as she felt this was critical of her. I tried to explain that this was just personal to me. My parents had me very young and I can't get my head around being 60 and my kid bring a teenager. Both my parents were seriously ill in their early 50s and my Mum basically lost interst in my sister and I when she went through the menopause in her mid 40s. She came round to us again after but it was an awful time really. Luckily we were older but it would have bern awful if we had been small.

Im sure not all parents are like rhis but it makes me feel that for me its better to have them young or not at all.

How to I reassure her my feelings aren't a personal slight?

OP posts:
C8H10N4O2 · 14/11/2020 08:51

In all honesty, if I were her, I'd be re-evaluating the friendship

Oh give over. Its a nosey, personal question and if you ask it you should be prepared for whatever answer comes, not expect the recipient to do mental gymnastics to ensure they don't upset the questioner.

Yes in an ideal world we would all be infinitely tactful and "nice". Of course in that world nosey, personal questions would not be asked.

PanamaPattie · 14/11/2020 08:58

I don’t see why you need to apologise. She asked you a question and you answered. Everyone has an opinion about the right age to have a baby - 15 is too young or 41 is too old. What age is best? You decide.

Constance1 · 14/11/2020 09:01

@TheYearOfSmallThings

It's an intrusive question to ask any woman of any age!

Actually yes, you're right!

Surely it's ok for close friends to ask each other questions like this though? Of course it would be inappropriate to ask an acquaintance or random stranger, but close friendships are built on sharing life experiences/intimacies and I don't see why this would be particularly intrusive between close friends.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

Families Menopause Women's health
LolaSmiles · 14/11/2020 09:07

Surely it's ok for close friends to ask each other questions like this though
Yes, but it is still an intrusive question where the answer will be deeply personal to each woman, so it's probably best not to go asking other women about their reproductive choices if you're only going to get upset and offended if a friend's personal decisions don't validate your choices.

Another poster put it very well by saying it's a personal question that should only be asked if you're happy with answer and aren't expecting the person you are asking to perform mental gymnastics in their response.

AwaAnBileYerHeid · 14/11/2020 09:07

@Ginfordinner it's hardly a "hysterical over reaction", calm yourself down love. Do you normally over react the way you just have done with your comment, gin?

If you went round to the house of a friend who is the same age as you and she pulled out a new outfit she'd bought herself, would you exclaim 'god I couldn't wear that, I'd be mutton dressed as lamb!' I'm hoping you wouldn't. It's about having a bit of sensitivity. Saying what the OP did to a friend who is probably going through one of the most heartbreaking, painful journeys a woman can go through...it really is a bit cruel. The OP basically stated that 42 is too old for a baby. She may have meant it that she herself was too old, however we all know that really, she thought 42 was too old. And she had no filter when saying that to her friend. She could have just said no, I don't want kids. But no, she had to be hurtful (which she obviously was, in the friends opinion).

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being mindful of others pain and being sensitive to it, as opposed to just opening your big gob and letting your belly rumble.

I have, or should I say had a friend who was of similar limited emotional intelligence. All of our mutual friends have drifted off from her and she doesn't really have any friends now. I wonder why.

Valkadin · 14/11/2020 09:08

You were honest and that’s fine. Unfortunately I have seen some usually rational women both friends and relatives change personality wise when it comes to fertility and relationship issues because of the stress levels.

Those reactions encompass a wide range of behaviours deep down its all about sadness and fear but I always think that at those times our in our lives it really reveals us. The absolute worst was SIL when she decided for IVF alone. Her stress led to her becoming really verbally aggressive and she drove people away. I withdraw completely from people and can’t speak at all when upset. We are all different it just depends on how much any of us wants to tolerate from others and deep down that always boils down to how much we like or love that person.

FTMF30 · 14/11/2020 09:12

@AwaAnBileYerHeid I'm with @Ginfordinner It would be draining to be your friend.

And, to all those saying that OP could have just said she doesn't want kids without explanation, it's pretty likely the friend would have then asked why.

user1498572889 · 14/11/2020 09:12

I felt I was too old after the age of 30. In my family all of the women die young and my own mother died when I was a teenager so I had my children young just to try to minimise the risk of me leaving them before they were adults. You didn’t mean to upset your friend it’s just your personal choice.

LolaSmiles · 14/11/2020 09:13

If you went round to the house of a friend who is the same age as you and she pulled out a new outfit she'd bought herself, would you exclaim 'god I couldn't wear that, I'd be mutton dressed as lamb!' I'm hoping you wouldn't.
Except that's not a reasonable comparison to the Op situation.

The OP situation is more like someone pulling out a new outfit that they like, directly asking a friend if they'd wear thay outfit and then being annoyed or upset when they say no because they don't have the figure they used to. Then the friend gets upset and offended because obviously a friend commenting on themselves when asked a direct question about themself must obviously be a massive statement about anyone who wears the outfit.

Ragwort · 14/11/2020 09:26

I think your friend is being oversensitive, lots of people make different choices in life and that doesn't mean thy are 'wrong' but just not 'right' for another person.
I had my first (only) child at 43, I look at young women in their late teens/early-mid 20s with a child and am just thankful I never made that choice, I think it's ridiculously young to have a child but I probably wouldn't voice my opinion.

Ginfordinner · 14/11/2020 09:26

Saying what the OP did to a friend who is probably going through one of the most heartbreaking, painful journeys a woman can go through...it really is a bit cruel.

No it isn't. It really isn't. I think you are reading too much into the OP's response here. The OP didn't say that her friend was too old. She said that she felt that she herself would feel too old. I agree with @FTMF30. You sound like you are looking for offence where none was intended.

NailsNeedDoing · 14/11/2020 09:27

Your friend shouldn’t have asked if she wanted a lie instead of an honest answer.

You have done nothing wrong OP, and if she’s going to be this over sensitive about other people’s truths that have no effect on her, then she’ll probably be one of those friends that’s going to be hard work when they’re pregnant or have a new baby. I don’t think you need to go over the top trying to reassure her, leave her to see sense in her own time.

Zilla1 · 14/11/2020 09:37

HNRTT but if/when she is in a rational moment, you could ask her if you should take her decision to have IVF as criticism of your decision not to have children? This might help her realise that age is only one of several dimensions to a person's decision and everyone has different circumstances and preferences.

AliceBlueGown · 14/11/2020 09:39

I don't think you have done anything wrong, you didn't intend to hurt your friend. However I do not think that you or some posters understand the stress of IVF - I think your friend would be hearing 'you are too old for IVF to work' and if it does work 'you are too old to have a baby.' I suspect she asked the question because she was hoping for a posItive response from a friend. Two children here at 40 and 43.

Inkpaperstars · 14/11/2020 09:48

@Wyntersdiary

Personally i wouldnt have a child after 35, i dont think other people who do are in the wrong i just dont think it fits my plans that i have :D i have a 20 year plan! i am late 20s with a 1 and 2 year old so at the moment my plan is going to plan haha
Just out of interest, do you think if your plan hadn't gone to plan you would have stuck with your 35 upper age limit @Wyntersdiary? For example if ill health or fertility issues had prevented you having children by then? I think many would still say, no, 35 was my limit. I know people who have. Others would say actually, having children is a key part of my plan/vision for the future, and I would rather other bits of the timeline had to give than give up on that while I still have a chance. It doesn't seem that meaningful to say you wouldn't make any other plans when your original plan is working....very few have being an older mother as their first choice, the question is how you handle things when your first choice doesn't happen.
m0therofdragons · 14/11/2020 09:51

For me my 40s will be be when my dc are 11-14 and being more independent. My career was put on hold when dc were little and it’s only in the last 2 years I’ve been able to get back to the level I was on pre children. The idea of doing that in my 40s and trying to re enter my career at almost 50 sounds really hard (but that’s based on my experience and maybe friend’s job is different). It’s easy for me to say I wouldn’t have a baby in my 40s because I have 3 from my late 20s. I’ve robe that stage, loved it but don’t need to do it again. If I’d reached 42 without dc I’d possibly feel different. Everyone is different and that’s what’s wonderful about life.

Inkpaperstars · 14/11/2020 09:52

I think you were possibly a bit tactless with the way you phrased it OPE, but then your friend was also possibly a bit tactless with the way she asked it. Both of your viewpoints are valid, you are two different people and what seems the right decision for one of you wont necessarily apply to the other. I think you both just need to be clear that your own choices don't imply any judgment of the other, that it's a personal thing. Sometimes people need that spelling out especially when they are going through a sensitive time.

CrotchetyQuaver · 14/11/2020 09:55

Try to let it go, she's being unreasonable in getting huffy because she didn't like your answer. But, every single one of my friends who went through IVF went a bit batty for a while, I think it must be a combination of all the hormones they needed to take and hopes and fears about whether it would work.

ComeOnBabyHauntMyBubble · 14/11/2020 09:55

@FourPlatinumRings

It would be different if you'd forced your views on her with out asking for them

She kinda did though. The friend asked if she would, not for an explanation of why. A simple, 'No, I wouldn't,' would have sufficed, possibly followed up with, 'but we're all different and I'm sure you'll love being a mum.'

OP did only say no and the friend still got upset. She only explained why after the friend got upset.

If she wasn't willing to actually hear OP's opinion she shouldn't have asked the question.

Inkpaperstars · 14/11/2020 10:03

I am glad that several posters have recognised they might feel differently it they hadn't been able to have children younger. There are many women who have or try to have a child an at older age than they wanted or planned as a preference to having none. That doesn't mean they would be dreaming of conceiving at that age if they already had dc, although some do. I am fairly confident your friend wouldn't OP.

Everyone should be sensitive to the fact that people are in very different positions, and for many people the luxury of certain choices hasn't existed. I hope that your friend is over the hump of the awkward conversation OP, and I also hope it hasn't been too upsetting for you.

saraclara · 14/11/2020 10:05

Ugh, I think your explanation made it worse OP, so I definitely think you need to stand back now. You basically said that your mother was a bad parent because of her age, which implies that your friend would be too!

If she ever mentions it again, simply say that you don't have the sort of energy that your friend has. Something that's self-deprecating but encourages her to continue her path and shows you have faith in HER ability to be an older mum.

LaVitaPuoEsserePiuBella · 14/11/2020 10:06

@Catsup

To be totally honest I think it's one of those instances of 'don't ask the question if you don't want to hear the answer 😕'.
Yep
Wyntersdiary · 14/11/2020 10:06

@Inkpaperstars

if I had gotten to 33 and it looked like infertility was going to be a problem then I would have looked at adoption and if adoption wasn't looking like a possibility then I would not keep trying past 35 but I would try to become a foster parent ( applying to be one at the moment) I think I possibly would go to 40 but that would be the maximum age for me, i have a friend who is 46 and pregnant and i have no problem with it but it just wouldnt work for me.

At the same time you never know what you would do until in that position so for all i know i would be desperate for a child of my own so much that i would keep trying till 60! I just don't know but in my head i say 35 is the max.

And my opinion is other people shouldn't really have children after 47 but i would never express that too anyone as its not my life.

Inkpaperstars · 14/11/2020 10:09

That seems very fair and honest @Wyntersdiary. I do hope things go well for you with the fostering.

WitchesSpelleas · 14/11/2020 10:13

Having asked the question, any reason the OP gave would have the potential to undermine her friend's choice - unless she'd given a blunt 'no' without an explanation (which might have sounded like a snub). The OP couldn't win!

42 is a relatively late age to have a baby - by the time the child is grown up, you'll be past 60. That's not to say it's a bad idea or no one should do it, but there are risks attached to having a child later in life - shying away from that won't make the risks go away.