Parents of secondary kids

[MrsJunglelow]

How troublesome are their schools?

Mine is in a state school with one of the best reputations in the area.
It’s an ‘average’ area, not massively rich and not deprived.

In the short few months DS has been there I’ve been blown away, and not in a good way, by the behaviour I’m both witnessing and hearing about.

Multiple fights, one witnessed by me just today with all the teachers crowded around, kids getting picked on and hit by other children either unprovoked or for very, very minor things both in school grounds and outside.
All filmed and circulated round social media.

Appalling language, lots of fucking this and fucking that, a kid a couple of days ago shouting at another child that they were wanted to suck off someones dick.

Conversations overheard about fighting and homophobic language.

Someone DS knows allegedly had a knife pulled on him (in school grounds)

What with this and the seemingly increasing violent crimes; knife crime mostly being reported in my area, honestly, I’m feeling really uncomfortable.
I’ve told DH I think I want to move but he says it’s like this everywhere now?
That gang culture has filtered down and I’d present everywhere?

It's not like this at all in my average sized C of E school. Language on the playground can be awful (as in swearing) but this is not accepted in classrooms. There is the occasional fight which is dealt with quickly and the participants receive sanctions. Bullying is rare and our pastoral team do an excellent job of dealing with it.

Behaviour is, on the whole, good. We have a one strike policy which removes students to isolation for a day and this seems to work in the majority of classes.

When I was having a bad day one of my colleagues drew a dot on a piece of A4 paper and said that dot represents the proportion of students that cause trouble! It's true that it really is a minority.

My boys go to an all boys Public school. No fights or anything there. 🤷🏻‍♀️

My DS goes to a super-selective boys Grammar, and someone close to me works there so I hear from both perspectives, and the behaviour is almost impeccable. Honestly, it's a big deal if one boy calls another boy an idiot.

We have an outstanding non-selective school close to us and, while I'm sure the school is great in lots of respects, there is a lot of the behaviour the OP describes.

I'm not saying it's a selective vs non-selective thing btw; I realise my post comes across like that. I haven't heard of such behaviour at the other non-selective schools near us, and I have heard of drug problems at the selective private school near us.

"DH says it’s like this everywhere now?"

Of course you know this is bullshit, right. Plenty of good schools everywhere.

Ds's both at local faith school. Strict and school demands parental engagement. They simply wouldn't tolerate anything you are describing. It's far from perfect, there's still bullying, etc. But HoY or Head of school would phone parent if there are any issues and you'd be asked to come in and discuss with Deputy Head.

Yes there are gangs. In inner cities. And other areas, moving every day more and more into suburban areas. If you choose to live there, that's your choice.

You must know that what you are describing isn't the norm?

Not the experience we have had over 3 different secondary schools.

There was a weed smoking issue in the boys school (thankfully ds so anti that he never got involved way to into his sport)

Bad language is heard yes among teenagers. however none of ours or their friends would have done so near a teacher or parent.

Heard of 1 fight in a secondary school my friends child is in. The child who beat up the other child was expelled.

We live in SE a fairly well off area (not Kensington/Richmond well off) however one of the schoold mine attended had a much lower demographic and this did not happen.

Nothing like that is happening at my dc's not so academic state secondary in not rich nor deprived area.

Wil just add the 3 i have experience off

1 is a mixed comprehensive
1 a boys grammar state school
1 a mixed church (you do not get in without God points as my friend calls it) first 2 ofsted good the last outstanding (and I will say you can see why with this school)

I'm not in the UK and pretty shocked that this could be considered the norm there?! My ds started secondary this year and the biggest scandal he came home with this week is that a kid got detention for sharpening his pencil for too long.

I would be intrigued to know what other schools in other countries do differently.

In the UK all tgey seem to do is email asking fir money or reminding you about uniform.

They would worry about your shoes before they worry about who's doing what to who.

I dont think kids are any different here than anywhere else so what are we doing wrong.

We are a rich country. Yet our kids sit in classrooms that are falling apart with up to 35 kids who can't behave....

Nothing like has been described on here. There was one knife incident in the ten years I've had children at the school.

Of course you know this is bullshit, right
No I’m not sure I do.

I grew up in a somewhat deprived area, at primary school I was bullied relentlessly and not just by the students.
Most of the kids that shared my brothers year at primary have done prison time as adults.

My secondary school was better in that I wasn’t bullied too much, but we had students coming in stoned.
We had drug dealing within school.
We had a teacher who had to leave due to relentless harassment by a group of students at his home.
We had hardly any proper fights but we did have kids involved in gangs.
One infact was suspended for bringing in an assortment of weapons.

Ironically, I moved to the area I am now to escape drug dealing, gang culture, violence etc as I’d had a baby and wanted to raise children in a nicer/safer environment.

When I first moved here I couldn’t believe my luck!
Leafy and green, quiet, friendly, no trouble, bliss!

Over time it’s gone further and further downhill.
I myself have been the victim of violent crime here twice, both times I have had my child with me.
He’s pretty anxious unsurprisingly.

Ironically never had anything serious happen to me in my old place, which was arguably a ‘rougher’ area.

There are reports of violent crime here at least weekly now, at least.
Usually knife crime, sometimes it’s gang in but not always.
Robbery/mugging at knifepoint is frequently recorded.
I no longer feel safe here.

Me and DH follow the news pages of other areas in the UK and violent crime is regularly reported there too.

I realise I am deviating from the thread subject a bit but honestly, my anxiety is off the charts.
If the kids didn’t need taking to school I wouldn’t leave the house.

This is not normal everywhere. The language probably is, but not the fighting etc . My DD is in a state school in a nice town and the kids here are largely well behaved in public and polite.
In rougher areas, I think that's less true. The school's management team don't sound like they are particularly on top of things though - these schools require a really strong head and behaviour management ethos. I've been in some schools which were in very deprived areas but the head was very strict and behaviour was better. It's down to leadership imo

Just read your latest post. Move if you can. Not all areas of the UK are as you describe

No, OP. This level of disruption is not normal.

My kids go to the local High School which while not in a deprived area, is not a high flying school at all. Looking at the issues in your son's school:

There are fights but the teachers appear immediately to break them up (if on school grounds or near enough)

No knives that I've heard of - that is very worrying.

And no filming that kids have told me. The school may not have the best academic results by they're shit hot on bullying and stamping out this kind of shit.

Lots of swearing but that's what teenagers (and adults) do...

Some kids smoke in the alleyway opposite the school but this has gone on for years and in every school in the country I imagine!

The school ds2 was in for year 7 was a bit like that. Fights etc. I moved him and its a lot nicer now. Lower chav count.
Dds school doesnt seem to have a lot of fights. Probably the odd one. She says she doesnt see any bullying

Lower chav count

Those from privileged backgrounds are just as capable of being problem children at school.

You need to see your GP re your anxiety.

We are Surrey / London side. All the schools here are very good. I chose deliberately the local catholic (even though I'm not really catholic, my Dh's family are) because they are strict. And one of the best non fee paying, comprehensives, in the county.

And if I hadn't chosen this school, all the nearest 5 other choices would have been perfectly fine.

On our local WhatsApp group there was a stabbing, a group of 17 year old boys. All were horrified and it was talked about for days. This was the first time such a thing in the 20 years I've lived here.

I think your perspective is a bit skewed, consider moving?

Sully I agree about the shoes.

Too much is left to cascade down to different teachers. The head and slt should do the one strike exclusion room thing.

Too much sloppy when left open to the different interpretation. The head needs to be the back bone and back the teachers up.

There are school near us with pockets of this type of behaviour. It is usually a minority and they can ruin and dominate an entire class.
Apparently though middle of the road kids change these damaged kids by virtue of being in the same class as them?

I have three kids in secondary and also work in a different secondary albeit not really with the kids most of the time. My own kids have only ever actually told me about one fight within school and it was “exciting” as it was so rare.

There is plenty of smoking within close range of school gates before and after school. Not great but they think they look cool.

Both are state schools.

Anyone else read this story about teenagers murdered by other teenagers? Not much gets to me really, but this made me feel like crying.

@Whatwouldscullydo

Lower chav count

Those from privileged backgrounds are just as capable of being problem children at school.

yeah definitely, they can be dicks too, and in horrible ways, but a specific sort of little shit was always starting fights in ds school, and reminded me very much of the council estate comp school school that I went to as a child. I had really hoped things had changed since then, but I was really starting to worry about things like county lines and knives if it got any worse. Im speaking from experience as a working class woman with experience of quite a few different schools, and if youre pretending you dont know what I mean, or that im being snobby about it, then I would suspect you might just not have experienced it as much.

Some of this did happen in DC’s S London ‘outstanding’ comp, but those who were involved were involved and those who weren’t found it very easy to stay out of it. All my D.C. and their friends, and the majority of kids, tbf, just observed it with a degree of contempt (or laughed about it) and hit on with getting great results.

They did swear a lot amongst themselves, I suppose.

But I hear the same , and worse, from the kids at private schools who use a local bus.

Also, the school was very ‘on it’. But it still went on amongst certain groups of kids.