What do you think of Emmerdale’s Downs Syndrome abortion storyline? *contains spoilers MNHQ*

[IntoP20]

I don’t actually watch the programme, but just read a headline that explained two characters (Laurel and Jai) are going to make the decision to terminate their baby with Downs Syndrome.

Is this damaging to new parents /expectant parents and those with Downs Syndrome themselves? Or is this a positive move to reduce the stigma around women being able to make choices about their bodies?

I think the whole scenario is sad and horrific and I think it’s going to upset a lot of people watching.

I have worked with a number of people with Downs and they are often healthy aside from the Downs itself. I think the law stating you can terminate the life of a healthy baby in late pregnancy is absolutely barbaric.

You can’t be pro-choice with ifs/buts/maybes or limits - it wouldn’t be pro-choice if you started to be limits on it.

And in this country we do put a limit on a woman’s right to choose (you cannot abort over 24 weeks without medical reason)

You can have opinions, you can say what would be right for you and what would not. You can even judge others (although I hope you would have enough sense not to do this to anyone going through a termination for any reason)

What you cannot do is impose your opinions or choices on others, especially when it involves what they will do with their bodies or how they will live the rest of their lives.

Sorry for your loss @GuyFawkesDay and that is not the type of scenario that I was referring to in my post.

Possible trigger

Sorry to ask an ignorant question, but if it's legal to abort DS children 'until birth' (didn't realise that), won't some of the children be born alive? What happens to them?

Or do health professionals take steps to ensure that doesn't happen? The idea is horrific but I hadn't realised you could abort the whole way through and the Q is really troubling me.

Sorry I thought I had read all posts but I haven't and probably someone's answered this. Stupid page system.

I too think abortion at 40 weeks is horrific, aswell as the parent i cant imagine how psychologically scarring that would be for the surgeon who had to do that to a fully developed baby. horrific

I wouldn't get worked up about it, since its not a thing that actually happens.

Ethics surrounding abortion are difficult. If it's entirely pro choice why is terminating because child is the wrong sex so frowned upon.

@EugenesAxe

Possible trigger

Sorry to ask an ignorant question, but if it's legal to abort DS children 'until birth' (didn't realise that), won't some of the children be born alive? What happens to them?

Or do health professionals take steps to ensure that doesn't happen? The idea is horrific but I hadn't realised you could abort the whole way through and the Q is really troubling me.

As far as I'm aware they stop the heartbeat first and then preform the procedure meaning that it wouldn't be born alive x

Are some people seriously arguing that it should be illegal for a woman to have an abortion if the foetus is identified as having Down Syndrome? That she should be forced to continue with the pregnancy and birth? Because if you are 'against' aborting foetuses with DS then that is what you are advocating for.

Sorry to ask an ignorant question, but if it's legal to abort DS children 'until birth' (didn't realise that), won't some of the children be born alive? What happens to them

Well its not something that occurs, in reality. But I have known of a termination at 32 weeks, and the procedure does not allow for a live birth. Potassium is injected into the heart, there's no room for error.

If it's entirely pro choice why is terminating because child is the wrong sex so frowned upon

Because you can totally be against someones reason to do a thing while defending their right to do it to the upmost. There is no contradiction there.

Pro choice means pro choice, you believe women should have the choice to terminate for any reason she so wishes. Sometimes this is because she simply does not want to be pregnant but other times it’s more complex than that. I don’t think there’s any real moral dilemma here at all. DS can be a very serious disability with attached health conditions (usually heart problems) and nobody should be forced to raise a severely disabled child if they don’t wish to.

I regularly see a woman in her 80s (at a guess) waiting for her son who has DS (50s at a guess again) to come visit her. He walks along the path with his carer and it always makes me feel a bit sad. I don’t know anything about them but just think it’s sad that her son will never be truly independent. It’s not the same for all people with DS, some have jobs and relationships but it’s always a gamble. You don’t really know how serious their disability will be until they’re born and grow up.

I have worked with a number of people with Downs and they are often healthy aside from the Downs itself

More often they are not though.

I don't know if anyone's mentioned it but there was a storyline in Brookside decades ago about a woman trying to decide whether to terminate her pg when she discovered the baby had DS. I remember she went to look at a school where she could watch young people with the condition and this seemed to affect her - she kept the baby (and ditched the husband, iirc). So this is not a new storyline. I think it's reasonable for charities and parents of children with DS to be annoyed if the information given in the programme is all negative, and seen to push toward the termination being the "sensible" or "right" choice. That makes it less about an individual woman choosing what is right for herself and more about a society that doesn't value people with disabilities as it should, and puts pressure on women to terminate.
I have not seen how it is presented in Emmerdale so don't know what direction their story takes.

Potassium is injected into the heart, there's no room for error.

Someone had answered my question on page 3... but bloody hell, I did not realise they essentially killed a child. I couldn't judge a parent going through it though, when every choice either definitely or most likely is not going to have a happy ending.

Noitjustwontdo - do you think the lady is sad when her son comes to visit her? Do you think she isn't proud he lives apart from her and is getting on with his life?
I don't see why this is a sight that makes you sad at all

Someone had answered my question on page 3... but bloody hell, I did not realise they essentially killed a child. I couldn't judge a parent going through it though, when every choice either definitely or most likely is not going to have a happy ending.

Exactly. If you take even just a few seconds to think about the reasons and circumstances in which a late term abortion would take place, it's horrific all round.

I did not realise they essentially killed a child

So what on earth did you think the process might have been? Because the whole end-point of termination is that there should not be a live birth.

As early as possible, as late as necessary.

I too think abortion at 40 weeks is horrific

There have only been 2-3 cases of this in recent years, they are very much the exception rather than the normal and in each case there were severe medical issues relating to the decision.

"I did not realise they essentially killed a child"

I think many people prefer not to think/know about the actual logistics of an abortion and what it involves (for all parties involved).

I think the issue with a child with Downs is the dichotomy between the child's right to life and the parents' right to not have to spend the next 50+ years caring for a disabled person at the expense of their own life as they know it.

I don't judge anyone who feels they can't do that, especially if they already have children who would be profoundly negatively affected by a disabled sibling.

I'm Catholic, and before having my own DC after ~£50k of fertility treatment felt that it would be wrong in any circumstances to abort due to DS. Now I have my DS I understand why parents wouldn't want to burden a child with a profoundly disabled sibling (although I still wouldn't choose to abort - I just understand where people are coming from a bit better).

Of course abortion at 40 weeks (9 months) is extremely rare. It does happen though. And at 8 months, 7 months, 6 months etc. 24 weeks is approximately 6 months' gestation.

@HBGKC

"I did not realise they essentially killed a child"

I think many people prefer not to think/know about the actual logistics of an abortion and what it involves (for all parties involved).

And I think some people prefer not to think/know about the actual logistics of forcing a woman to be pregnant and give birth to a baby that she does not want, including what happens to that baby after it is born.

to not have to spend the next 50+ years caring for a disabled person at the expense of their own life as they know it

For me this is the issue. As I said I have a child with Down's syndrome and they bring more joy, happiness and delight into my life than you can possibly imagine. I do not feel that my child is a burden on me or on anyone else.

The portrayal down syndrome can be so negative and I think that this one is disappointing for parents like me. Yes there are negatives but for me the positives far far far outweighed them.

@PasstheBucket89

Im pro choice but with limits, I too think abortion at 40 weeks is horrific, aswell as the parent i cant imagine how psychologically scarring that would be for the surgeon who had to do that to a fully developed baby. horrific 😔

Obstetricians couldn't do their job if delivering a dead baby traumatised them so much. They will see it with stillborn all the time, no reason why an aborted baby would be any worse for them.