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Original poster

Did anyone hear the woman defending Charlie Hebdo on R4 Today?

973 replies

Icantthinkofabettername · 17/10/2020 08:57

I read about the awful attack on the teacher in France last night. It is just horrific an no one should face that risk.

However, the spokesperson on the Today programme was spectacularly missing the point. She was defending freedom of speech and advocating children being taught about satire.

In my view, there is nothing groundbreaking about using satire to perpetuate the prevailing view and the view of the elite in society, particularly when groups on the lowest rungs of that society feel it is directed at them.

Much in the same way that Trump uses 'Freedom of Speech' and defending 'Liberty' to sanction the oppression of already oppressed members of society.

I don't know what the answer is, terrorism cannot suceed as a tool for change. However, what Charlie Hebdo stood for cannot continue to be blindly defended, without seeing it for what it was.

OP posts:
MotherMood · 19/10/2020 09:49

We do not have free speech in the UK

This is absolutely correct.

notafanoftheman · 19/10/2020 10:16

For those who can't read French, the links are about the café owner suing the reporters for defamation, a TV exec talking about problems with the reportage, and a local journalism blog reporting on local reactions, including interviews with a number of women who are regulars at the café in question.

unmarkedbythat · 19/10/2020 10:31

I have lots of issues with the French approach to multiculturalism- basically, that they don't want it and if you're living there you will damn well live within the norms they have set- but of course I have more issues with those who feel is acceptable to murder people because they feel offended.

Requinblanc · 19/10/2020 10:35

What on earth are you on about? of course Charlie Hebdo should have been able to publish whatever they like. If you don't like it, don't read it. It is not up to you to decide who has freedom of speech and who does not...that is the point of freedom of speech. As long as no law is broken, people should be able to say and print whatever the heck they want.

pointythings · 19/10/2020 10:54

I've read all of OP's posts and have come to the conclusion that what they want is appeasement. Never say anything that might be construed as offensive to anyone, because the offended person might lash out violently and if they do, that isn't their fault.

Fuck that. If you can't handle a bit of mockery, go live in a cave and herd goats.

pinkhousesarebest · 19/10/2020 10:58

I live close to Rillieux-la-Pape, second on the video. I have had friends who began their teaching career there. It is a no go area.

pinkhousesarebest · 19/10/2020 11:03

Lots of back pedalling in the press this morning. The Rectorat have conceded that, yes, the Inspector was sent out to see the teacher but only in a supportive role.
Also that the murderer was able to identify the teacher - he was not a pupil- because other students pointed him out, for money.

notafanoftheman · 19/10/2020 11:14

How can it be a no-go area if people go there to teach? I won't say exactly where I live because it would be outing. But it's in that sort of area. My son is regularly the only white child in his class, his school is 90% Muslim. It's a total non-issue.

notafanoftheman · 19/10/2020 11:15

I also lived in Conflans for ten years. It is definitely not a no-go area, it's a very pleasant little town.

pinkhousesarebest · 19/10/2020 11:22

They go there to teach because they are are sent there by the Education Nationale. They then spend every waking moment trying to get placed elsewhere. You don’t choose your school here as a newly qualified teacher - you earn your stripes.

LaChatte · 19/10/2020 11:28

You don't really earn your stripes either, you just hope the place you want is within your reach points wise that particular year.

notafanoftheman · 19/10/2020 11:40

Yes I know that, I teach myself. They might not be the most desirable places, that’s for sure, but I would still dispute that that makes them a No go area. For what it’s worth my son’s school in a Rep+ Zone has a highly dedicated team of teachers that have been there for decades.

LaChatte · 19/10/2020 11:56

Yeah that's not what I meant, I was just saying what a lottery it is (I've been teaching a Rep+ for 11 years, very very low level of mutations despite having a terrible reputation).

notafanoftheman · 19/10/2020 12:03

Yes sorry I was replying to Pinkhouses.

LaChatte · 19/10/2020 13:23

Oops, sorry!

notafanoftheman · 19/10/2020 13:40

No souci :-)

ZoeCM · 19/10/2020 14:22

OP, have you ever seen the episode of The Simpsons where Sideshow Bob threatens to bomb Springfield unless they ban television? When he realises that the TV stations are shutting down, he says, "Blast! I should have made more demands... Oh well, there's always next time."

THAT is why caving in to terrorists never works.

ZoeCM · 19/10/2020 14:51

@LouiseBelchersBunnyEars

What is Islamic extremism if not far right though? I mean, it’s definitely not a left wing ideology is it? I don’t understand why ‘far right’ ideology only seems to include the geo nazi type, because I think Islamic terrorists fit the bill of ‘far right’ pretty well
Excellent point. Radical Islam is ultra-conservative.
Maireas · 19/10/2020 14:56

Can you imagine if the perpetrator had been white and with a swastika tattoo? Would there have been calls for understanding and inclusion of his ilk?

user1471565182 · 19/10/2020 15:41

Aww bless, Falx. Would you like to tell me how me living in 'THE NORTH' (yorkshire) all my life in the areas mentioned and finding middle class curtain twitching liars talking about things they know nothing about makes me a snob about the north? or lets just say it out loud-you actually knew exactly what I meant but desperately tried to twist it and failed badly.

I assume you treat all places with churches as No Go zones now?

WhatamessIgotinto · 19/10/2020 17:44

What is Islamic extremism if not far right though?
I mean, it’s definitely not a left wing ideology is it?
I don’t understand why ‘far right’ ideology only seems to include the geo nazi type, because I think Islamic terrorists fit the bill of ‘far right’ pretty well

You're absolutely bang on the money. Anyone who has ever done a Prevent Course would agree that you are correct.

user1471519931 · 19/10/2020 17:48

Ok so what about Spitting Image, Have I Got News For You... should these programmes be banned?

Bouledeneige · 19/10/2020 17:54

I totally abhor the murder of the teacher in France and the Charlie Hebdo staff. And I would defend freedom of speech.

However although the Charlie Hebdo pictures purported to be satire I don't think they fulfilled their purpose - there was no wit or humour in the images and no deeper message - they were gratuitously offensive and calculated to be so. And in a country which has ingrained racism you could be rightly suspicious of the motivation - its hard to say that it served a higher purpose.

I suppose freedom of speech should be there to defend ham-fisted or unfunny satire but I've not seen any explanation of the actual satirical point they were trying to make. And with the risk of racism or religious intolerance being part or all of the message then the freedom speech argument is finely balanced.

Maireas · 19/10/2020 17:57

Nothing, but nothing justifies this barbaric act.