Did anyone hear the woman defending Charlie Hebdo on R4 Today?

[Icantthinkofabettername]

I read about the awful attack on the teacher in France last night. It is just horrific an no one should face that risk.

However, the spokesperson on the Today programme was spectacularly missing the point. She was defending freedom of speech and advocating children being taught about satire.

In my view, there is nothing groundbreaking about using satire to perpetuate the prevailing view and the view of the elite in society, particularly when groups on the lowest rungs of that society feel it is directed at them.

Much in the same way that Trump uses 'Freedom of Speech' and defending 'Liberty' to sanction the oppression of already oppressed members of society.

I don't know what the answer is, terrorism cannot suceed as a tool for change. However, what Charlie Hebdo stood for cannot continue to be blindly defended, without seeing it for what it was.

Ice just noticed the irony in my last comment around isms

I've*

Freedom of expression in schools and offices - since there is a hierarchy at play and people are not ‘equals’ and are evaluated by their superiors on their views, there is a possibility of feeling intimidated and othered. Especially with young minds. So probably a measured approach.

Othered? Not equals?

What like the non Muslim living in a Muslim neighbourhood, who is segregated from, or not even allowed in, the most prominent buildings in their own area?

There was a documentary film made a few years ago about this with hidden cameras. When women, both Muslim and non Muslim, tried to enter shops and cafes in their own neighbourhood and they were consistently asked to leave those buildings because it wasn't allowed. By their "superiors". Its absolutely horrifying that this is happening, not only in France, but in the UK too. Is this the world we want?

This teacher was ganged up against in his workplace by members of a supposedly "othered" community. A medieval witch hunt, pitchforks. He was the one who was being othered and he lost his life

@Flaxmeadow I saw that undercover filming. Women not allowed in the cafe's, intimidated on the street. "This is a Muslim area". It was a french suburb!

MotherMood

Yes and there were women walking with buggies and small children in tow and they had nowhere to go, apart form their house or apartment, in their own neighbourhood!!

It seems that once you are outnumbered by those with such a strong theistic and misogynistic you are totally fucked, even in a 'western society'.

*theistic and misogynistic culture

@AuldAlliance Excellent post.

Try walking around around some parts of Paris if you are a woman alone. It is very intimidating and scary. It is a particular group of men who take over the streets. They don't allow their own wives and daughters out and they regard French women and girls as beneath contempt.
I have experienced it and so has my daughter.

Well said Flaxmeadow!

@eleventylevennamechanges oh I know it's a fact that many places are like this now. Apart from the huge issue itself, the problem is it's irreversible and not up for discussion.

Which parts of Paris are these? Can’t say I’ve ever had a problem walking through my 85% Muslim suburb myself.

CH deliberately set out to offend with those cartoons

These type of comments make me despair.....how can anyone undermine the overwhelming wrong in the brutal murder of a person by point out how "offended" the murderer was

I have always told my sons "it is not my job to not make you mad - it's your job to control yourself"

OP, you are asking a reasonable question - is there anything we need to do to stop it.
Let’s think what happened. If you think that a marginalized man got offended and killed another man to revenge - I disagree with this view.
My view is a man was taught to kill and found an offense to do what he wanted, ie to kill.
We learn all we know. He was taught to be offended. That’s easy. But think of how much time he spent acquiring knife skills, techniques of attack, watching beheading videos, learning how to chop off limbs.
CH and the teacher are just a pretext. These extremists are about hate and violence. What we could do better is better policing globally

Which parts of Paris are these? Can’t say I’ve ever had a problem walking through my 85% Muslim suburb myself.

Here

[quote MotherMood]@Flaxmeadow I saw that undercover filming. Women not allowed in the cafe's, intimidated on the street. "This is a Muslim area". It was a french suburb!

[/quote]
I think there are areas in the UK like this. It must be absolutely awful if you are stuck there

Priti Patel said something negative about lawyers. Then someone got stabbed at a law firm. Others are upping their security measures because of her hate speech against lawyers doing their job.
But freedom of speech ennit.

I think there are areas in the UK like this. It must be absolutely awful if you are stuck there

There are and it is, and especially when you try to discuss gang crime. A subject banned on most forums

Priti Patel said something negative about lawyers. Then someone got stabbed at a law firm. Others are upping their security measures because of her hate speech against lawyers doing their job.

So an ethnic minority woman in charge of law and order, tried to discuss extremely serious law and order issues

Someone got stabbed, and she is to blame?

But freedom of speech ennit

Please stop othering working class people with your class based hate speech

Is that how it works?

What the hell has her ethnicity got to do with it?

She was peddling hate against legal workers who are doing their role to stop her department breaking the law.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/priti-patel-immigration-lawyers-migrants-law-society-bar-council-b832856.html%3famp

Where are these so called "no go" areas in the UK?

Where are these so called "no go" areas in the UK?

For girls or young women? Parts if Rotherham or Rochdale or any other of the north of England towns an deities where organised crime gangs exist with impunity. Take your pick

*cities

Have you been? Experienced this? Reliable source?

@Icantthinkofabettername

I get that religious satire seeks to question and undermine the oppressive power of organised religion. What I think is missed in it, is that those subject to/following that religion often feel that the satire is mocking them. Being a Muslim in France is not a comfortable position to be in, the satire creates more discomfort and alienation.

I would like for terrorist incidents of this kind to never happen again, surely you need to consider why it happens?

This is what is commonly known as victim blaming OP. There is no need for CH to stop what they do, it is not illegal or hate speech. If you don't like it don't buy it. It is not up to murderers to dictate what freedom of speech is nor should they be appeased.