Black section on MN

[PatricksRum]

I think it would be great if Mumsnet could make a black parents section/ section for black users.

@WaltzfortheMars

TanteRose and ElizabethMainwaring, are you actually orientals yourself?

There was a thread while back, if the word oriental is appropriate or not. Many of whom they are orientals themselves said they don't mind it. But many who aren't were saying it's wrong. None of my oriental friends, who are actually quite educated takes no offence either. Why do people speak for us without us wanting you to is very weird.

I think that you've confused me with another poster. I haven't used or commented on the word 'oriental'.

I think the fact that this thread has been derailed by people speaking for OP and claiming that her suggestion would lead to white vs black separatism and racism and other ridiculous comments indicates clearly that her suggestion for a sub forum specifically for POC is valid. Why can’t non-POC posters just stop, think ‘this is what someone who is black telling us she needs, so let’s listen.’ Just listen 🤷‍♀️ How many times do we have to be told?

@WaltzfortheMars - You don't speak for me either. I find Oriental offensive and archaic, I do not wish to be referred to that way and neither does anyone I know.

I think it's a good idea. I tried to post an opinion on racism vs sexism from my POV as a Black women on a thread in Feminism chat. I was hounded by posters telling me I was nasty (interestingly a term Trump reserves for Black women) and aggressive.
I was also accused of playing the oppression/race card and - perhaps the worst crime of all - disregarding how White women who are victims of sexism feel.

All because I stated that my experiences of racism have personally affected me more than sexism.

It would be nice to post and gauge opinions from other Black women in a specific section the site but I doubt it will happen tbh.

@HeronLanyon

But there are differences in parenting surely - just some examples - how to Discuss with black children how to interact with the police, how to deal with racism from other school children, how to approach schools over concerns of discrimination/diversity issues, whether something is such an issue at all, etc etc I’ve often seen black posters spending more time in threads explaining things to others who don’t understand or don’t want to understand or defending their ‘right’ to have a problem and seek advice in the first place. I don’t understand in a forum called mumsnet why any member would question that shared experience is a useful first step for a thriving supportive ‘community’ ? The site has thriving sub-forums already - why would this one be problematic ?

You’d need to have been dropped on your head not to “get” why there are elements of black parenting that exist because of inherent prejudice in our society.

Whether you’re in Penge or Perth as a black child you will grow up having to get ready for the police treating you differently, any educational needs you may have being sidelined and (this makes me quite upset to type) but your being sexualised from a younger age than your white contemporaries and all that can go with that.

These will all be “chats” which ought to be discussed on the sub-site the OP is talking about.

I’m so sorry you are having to explain yourself. Surely by now it should be be different.

@WaltzfortheMars

Sorry, it should have said TanteRose and PicsInRed. I don't know where ElizabethMainwaring come from. It's nothing to do with her.

Thank you! (And I'm not weird either!)

@lookatallthosechickens

I'm perhaps a bit more militant than other Black folks on this site. Not only do I think that section for Black topics should be created, like, yesterday, I think that Mumsnet should hire a Black woman, specifically, to moderate it, if they don't already have a Black woman on staff who wants to take the work on (does Mumsnet have any Black staff? I'd be interested to know).

I also don't see it as a 'place for white people to read and learn'. I mean if that happens, great, but that's pretty much at the bottom of my list of reasons why I think it's important. If you're white and you haven't taken advantage of the many many thousands of resources from the earliest Slave narratives to the online resources linked in their thousands on social media in the wake of the BLM movement, then, I guess, catch up? I'm not interested in creating another resource for you right now. I'm interested in a space on Mumsnet where I can exist and communicate with other Black parents (or non-parents) without wading through the treacle of racism that permeates every other part of this site.

I mean that's not going to happen, I can't see this site hiring a moderator or team of moderators to pro-actively keep the racists at bay, which means that any Black-centred board would immediately descend into a racist hellscape. But it would be so nice if it could happen.

This ^^

Black and BAME isn't the same. I think the OP wants a Black section.

I specifically said black and/or BAME because I know they aren't the same thing.

Similarly, the SN section isn't there to educate people on SN, it's a safe space to discuss issues that affect people and DC with SN.

this quote, I think, sums up where opposition to your idea comes from:

Matt Hancock, when asked how many black people were in the cabinet, replied, 'We have a diversity of thought.'

people think they can imagine what your situation is like and that for them is enough

Black and BAME isn't the same. I think the OP wants a Black section.

I'd sit on my hands if it was a Black section as my DD isn't Black, but I'd prefer a BAME section where I can talk about how to parent my DD in a society that's still very racist.
If it was just a Black section, though, I'd still find it helpful.

@BullshitVivienne

Sounds like a good idea to me, as a white person. Also think anyone white who goes on there to post a "genuine question" (the goadiest phrase) or asks black people to explain something to them should be banned.

Would this apply to only white people or all nonblack people? I’m Asian and would like to know if I would face a ban if I ask a question?

@WaltzfortheMars

TanteRose and ElizabethMainwaring, are you actually orientals yourself?

There was a thread while back, if the word oriental is appropriate or not. Many of whom they are orientals themselves said they don't mind it. But many who aren't were saying it's wrong. None of my oriental friends, who are actually quite educated takes no offence either. Why do people speak for us without us wanting you to is very weird.

I honestly cannot believe that I am being asked, in 2020, if I am oriental I'm really shocked.

My DH is Japanese and my children are mixed race - Japanese/white british if you must know

I've lived in Japan for nearly 30 years and oriental is not a word I would ever use

@TheHumanRubbishBin, I am sorry if I offended you. It wasn't my intention.

TanteRose, I used the word because I am one myself. I wouldn't have other wise. What does your dh feel about the word?

@BullshitVivienne

Get the banhammer out MNHQ, loads of people showing exactly what they think of a black woman this morning.

Yeah, it's shocking isn't it. A simple and sensible request from PatricksRum started out quite well, but look at the state of it now. I thought that @lookatallthosechickens prediction of a 'descent into a racist hellscape' was well over the top, but I'm being proved wrong already.

Is anyone here playing whatabboutery bingo with this thread?
As a side note, I'm white and don't see why people are so threatened by this idea. There are loads of parts of mumsnets not for me - thats fine, I dont need the whole entire site to cater just for my specific circumstances. Actually it would be interesting to lurk and read from the thread - as previous posters said threads about race on AIBU etc tend to get swamped by white posters.
The only concern I would have is that people should continue to be free to AIBU/Chat etc without being directed by other posters to take it to the black issues thread (as happens with brexit discussions etc). I think this would be easy to get round though if we just agreed not to do that (or if the people that do are ignored).

So would everyone be welcome to post/ contribute to this new topic area

[quote starsinyourpies]@MidnightCitrus

I recommend this book.

www.amazon.co.uk/Longer-Talking-White-People-About/dp/1408870584?tag=mumsnetforu03-21[/quote]
Thanks - If a black section is wanted by black people, i don't see a problem at all. It should be easy to find to get it started, and then time will show if black people want it.

In my own experience (talking as a white woman) I like mn to talk to other grown ups, i dont know what colour they are. But I am a white woman, so I dont experience the issues that black people do, so its not my place to tell them.

(i'm sorry if my words are clunky, i dont mean to cause offense)

I'm white. I realise that parenting must be different when I saw a clip of a TV show depicting what black parents have to say to their children as warnings on a night out with friends. I know it was fictional but it was based on fact and it shook me to the core.

If there was a section like the OP imagines others could lurk and learn. They could LEARN! That could make so much difference.

Knowledge is power. My knowledge is weak. I want to do better.

Would you be happy for others to lurk and learn OP? I'm guessing yes.

But @SciFiScream black MN users and other MN users of colour are not here to be a lesson for the non-black users 🤦‍♀️ If we want to educate ourselves we can go read umpteen other places. If you want to lurk on black forums, go for it, but why would there be any need to announce it or seek permission for it, for black users to expect that their every post is some kind of lesson. It must be exhausting.

So, yes, I am intensely aware of what it is like to be a minority ethnicity, not black in the UK, but a minority nonetheless.

I have also had extensive experience of living as part of a visible ethnic minority in another country. I do not for one moment imagine that my experience as a white person in a largely non-white environment is even remotely comparable to the experience of a black person in the UK. Surely making that assumption is the very essence of white privilege, as it fails to take into account the historical context and systematic disadvantages that black people face?

@TanteRose, I just googled forum on Japanese newspaper with word Orinetal. It hit 611 cases.

komachi.yomiuri.co.jp/search.html?q=%E3%82%AA%E3%83%AA%E3%82%A8%E3%83%B3%E3%82%BF%E3%83%AB&fq=all&sort=desc

Not only is it a great idea OP, but it is neccesary. The ignorant posts on here only prove your point.

I've raised this before with MNHQ under a different username and commented many many times. I'm tired of doing so but I don't experience racism as a white person so my tiredness must be nothing compared to the crap black posters have to put up with on this forum. Someone telling you to "ask nicely"..? FFS.

I believe MN should be doing more, much more to draw a line in the sand on racism on MN, including the awful "whataboutary" masquerading as "genuine questions". Some people are idiots and need racism explaining to them, but it's NOT black people's job to do so. MNHQ could lead by example here.

There is so much white privilege, fragility and ignorance on here - unfortunately it is representative of the UK- but it doesn't mean we should just put up with it. There are a large number of women who live in small towns and villages out in parts of England where they never see a black face and rarely venture to London or other multicultural cities. They'll come on and say "actually I have one black friend" and think that means they understand racism but they don't. In fact they perpetuate the system day in day out. And now they're threatened by the idea of a Black space on MN. Says it all.

I hope MN listens.