Universal Credit has docked me £300 due to BH pay dates - am sick with worry

[FeelSickItsSoUnfair]

Background info - I am a single mum, I work as a TA on just above minimum wage so am at home when DCs are. My earnings are tiny and I rely on UC to get by. I am 1st port of call for ill and aged parents, and have various illnesses myself so cant work F/T but do as many hours as I can, whilst balancing not over doing it and being ill.

My work paid me on July 31st and then again at the end of August. Because of Bank Holiday Monday (31st) they paid me on the previous Friday (28th).

Due to this, UC have seen that I was paid 2 lots of amounts in a 4 week period and have taken £300 from my payment and I have been told they cant do anything about it - just sent me
a link www.gov.uk/universal-credit/how-youre-paid

Has anyone had this before and managed to get their payment rectified for the full amount or is that it and Im stuffed? Looking at other bank holidays I see this could happen again next May/June and possibly this December as work may decide to do payments a week early for xmas. So that will be 3 times in a year I will be penalised and overall down nearly £1000. I have explained that is my electricity money and a large part of my food bill bill I am down, but no luck.

If anyone has been in a similar position and managed to sort it I would really appreciate the help.

Write to your MP because your employer reported the wrong pay date to HMRC?! Mmmkay

Write to your MP because your employer reported the wrong pay date to HMRC?! Mmmkay

The impact is someone losing £300. Maybe that’s small change to you 🤷🏿‍♂️

It’s way way too harsh.

Even if £300 was small change to me (it's not) I realise that it's a significant amount for most people, including the OP, and that's why I have given the OP very detailed and accurate advice about how to get the problem rectified so she can get the £300 she is owed ASAP.

Writing to her MP will not achieve it as quickly as following my advice.

Sorry can't help, but it's disgusting they allow this to happen. I know exactly how much £300 feels when you're on that kind of income and it's a horrible feeling to suddenly be down by that much. I don't understand what it's supposed to achieve anyway. I think some people think about money all in luxury terms and can't understand that for some people it's actually survival/essentials and the kind of stress it causes when you fear you can't meet those. (Not to mention that some would turn to crime or illegal cash in hand work etc - not suggesting you would! But in terms of maintaining a safe and pleasant country!)

UC is supposed to make you better off in work, not stressing over money all the time!

I was going to suggest writing to MP as well. Not because that will sort it, but because it's what your MP is for - to hire your voice to parliament.

I really don’t understand how this known issue impacts the real money that people get. Everyone knows paying early on a BH is a thing

I’m sorry for you OP losing out on your cash

I really appreciate all the info given, and the kind thoughts x

I am researching things and have found the FB Essentials group. Still gutted but am not one to give up and will try every which way to get the money back!

Thank you all

Sympathies OP, single parent here, illness/family caring commitments too, in the same situation. My accounting period for UC runs 30th - 29th every month. My employer (large institution, doubt very much they'll change their payroll system for lil ol' me) pays on the last working day of the month, before if a weekend or bank holiday. In December my employer will pay me before Christmas, on the 23rd, which actually is a lovely gesture. But it will mean November and December payments will fall in the same accounting period. I won't then receive any UC in January or income until 31st Jan, when that and February's will fall together again the following month! Rinse and repeat. Nightmare. Feels like an impending car crash.

I'm also unsure about the info regarding the employer stating usual pay date, as from what I'm aware, you have to declare the date money is received into your bank account.

Sorry this isn't more helpful but hopefully, if enough of us are shouting about this, something might change! I will check out that Facebook page too! Good luck

Actually, writing to MPs should happen as pressure needs to be applied to DWP to act on the court's judgement. But for OP's specific immediate problem it's not going to be the fastest way to get a resolution.

I agree unmarked. Possibly won't help anyone that quickly with their own circumstances, but it needs to happen. Anyone feeling minded by the injustice of this please do

@Constella

Sympathies OP, single parent here, illness/family caring commitments too, in the same situation. My accounting period for UC runs 30th - 29th every month. My employer (large institution, doubt very much they'll change their payroll system for lil ol' me) pays on the last working day of the month, before if a weekend or bank holiday. In December my employer will pay me before Christmas, on the 23rd, which actually is a lovely gesture. But it will mean November and December payments will fall in the same accounting period. I won't then receive any UC in January or income until 31st Jan, when that and February's will fall together again the following month! Rinse and repeat. Nightmare. Feels like an impending car crash.

I'm also unsure about the info regarding the employer stating usual pay date, as from what I'm aware, you have to declare the date money is received into your bank account.

Sorry this isn't more helpful but hopefully, if enough of us are shouting about this, something might change! I will check out that Facebook page too! Good luck

Sounds like we are in a very similar situation! I dont think my company will change my pay date either tbh. Am a very small cog to them.

But I have written to my MP this evening, it may not help my particular situation now but hopefully it may help long term. Especially as this is going to happen again in December I think and next May for a lot of us if paydates arent changed.

Can you try to get your assessment dates changed. As if your assessment dates are say a week away from your actual payday then this wont happen again.

fucking bastards (the ones that wrote it and know it is a problem and go on the radio to defend it. ) absolute fucking bastards. [unhelpful]

Thanks for the earlier info about the test case. I am going to pass this onto someone I know who has had similar this month. It won’t be a quick fix but worth a try.

Your employer is supposed to report your pay date & send the RTI as normal even if it falls on a bank holiday & they pay you early.

The problem is UC take the dates that the RTI is sent to HMRC as your pay date not your actual pay date so if they've sent the RTI on 28th as they were closed on the 31st that's what will have been taken as your pay date. The system is computerised not manual so a bugger to get anything sorted. Your employer would have been better sending the RTI on the 1st Sept & selecting reasonable excuse for late submission.

Shit. Utter shit. Sorry you're struggling :( losing £300 a month would screw me so I get it. Going to tribunal is great in theory but I put in an appeal in regards to my student finance almost 3 years ago and I've only just received a response, only to tell me they will allocate me a hearing date but that it could be several months. I'll have finished my degree by the time I get one.

Sadly happened to a friend of mine at Christmas time. Her DH was paid one day early in November which resulted in no payment for December. She is currently SAHP due to having two children with SEND. Christmas was a difficult time for them but luckily they receive DLA and we were able to help out as it could have been a lot worse UC really needs to be looked at.

@FeelSickItsSoUnfair Put a request on your journal for a 'Budgeting Advance'
They will pay you up to a max of £812 and they take an agreed amount out of your ongoing payment each month. You can choose the amount. It will help tide you over.
If you ask nicely, they can send it as a same day payment.

@Constella
"In December my employer will pay me before Christmas, on the 23rd, which actually is a lovely gesture. But it will mean November and December payments will fall in the same accounting period. I won't then receive any UC in January or income until 31st Jan"

No, this shouldn't happen. You should ask your employer to ensure that they when they report the payroll information to HMRC for December, they report the usual pay date and not the actual earlier one.

From www.gov.uk/government/publications/cwg2-further-guide-to-paye-and-national-insurance-contributions/2020-to-2021employer-further-guide-to-paye-and-national-insurance-contributions

When a regular payment is made early at Christmas

Regular monthly payday on Friday 25 December 2020 (month 9) but paid Friday 18 December 2020, should be treated for PAYE purposes as being paid on 25 December 2020.

For National Insurance contributions purposes the payment must be treated as having been paid on 25 December 2020. The ‘payment date’ on the FPS should be 25 December and should be reported on or before 25 December 2020.

Regular weekly payday on Friday 25 December 2020 (week 38) but paid Friday 18 December 2020 (week 37), should be treated for PAYE purposes as being paid on 25 December 2020. You will need to report the regular payment on 18 December (week 37) as usual and report the early payment for 25 December (week 38) on a separate FPS.

For National Insurance contributions purposes the payment must be treated as having been paid on 25 December 2020. The ‘payment date’ on the FPS should be 25 December and should be reported on or before 25 December 2020.

Doing this will help to protect your employee’s eligibility for income based benefits such as Universal Credit, as an early payment could affect current and future entitlements.

No help just a rant how the government knows there is an issue and ignores and defends it. It's unconscionable how they wave it off and real people are suffering for their incompetence just like that Welfare Minister refused to acknowledge there were changes that could have been made to ensure that women in Glasgow didn't die of hunger and her poor son being left so malnourished he couldn't stand. This government is heartless and devoid of any compassion for the weakest in our society. P⁰

Noone who is in work or on benefits or both should be worried about having enough food or money to pay bills. If there are there is something wrong with the system, it's a shitshow of low wages, a crappy UC system and a government that gives zero fucks but is happy to let the rich get away with tax evasion and bail out companies to the tune of millions. But woe betide anyone who just needs enough to get through the month.

Good luck OP

You could ask for a mandatory reconsideration maybe quoting the recent case. Might be worth a try. Speak to CAB or similar welfare rights to see the best was to challenge it. I doubt you will get quick results even if you win though. maybe look at whether you are eligible for a budgeting loan ?

It is my understanding that all employers have been sent guidance on how to correctly report earnings to HMRC, so it may be best for people to speak to their emloyers.

@CornishTiger

Section 1.8 HMRC guidance states that where a regular payday falls on a non-banking day (Saturday, Sunday or bank holiday) and, because of this, payment is made on the last working day before the regular payday or next working day after the regular payday, the date reported on the FPS submission should be the contractual pay date instead of the date the person was actually paid. This can be important for UC claimants as explained below.

Yes the onus is on the employer to report correctly so that this situation does not occur. I advise a lot of people on claiming Uc and always advise trying to keep the assessment period dates well away from pay days if possible to avoid this problem.

@mumofthreewhatsfortea

This happens to me one month every year as I get paid every 28 days so we end up with 13 paydays a year . So two of them end up in one assessment period with universal credit .

Unfortunately it's just how it works . And i have to budget carefully during that month

This is different to the situation op is describing. If you are paid four weekly then you will have 13 pay days in the year and there are only 12 Uc assessment period so there will be one month a year where tow pay days fall in your assessment period meaning you receive less UC. You actually get paid extra UC each month compared to someone being paid the same annual salary monthly, so you don't actually miss out on any money overall except if on the one month a year where you have 2 paydays fall in your assessment period the deductions are enough to wipe out your Uc payment altogether and you lose your work allowance. The situation op is describing is where her employer has reported earnings on the wrong pay day meaning a reduced payment. It is not the same situation as occurs when being paid four weekly.

@Iggly

Please write to your MP about this. It seems pointless but it’s one of the few ways to get government to listen.

It is the employer who is in the wrong !