What constitutes to someone being Irish?

[Cybercubed]

Born there? Parents from there? Grandparents from there?

I'm born and raised in England, my parents are both Irish (mum from Belfast Dad from the ROI). In England whilst growing up people routinely called me Irish and so that's how I saw myself. Then I moved to Northern Ireland as teenager and had a reality check, because then everyone started calling me English. I still have an English accent so everyone still refers me to as an English person here. I've always understandably have a bit of an identity crisis therefore, compounded by the fact that the "British vs Irish" issue is right of the forefront of Northern Ireland politics as well I don't feel I fit in with either community here.

We've all heard of the term 'plastic paddy' which usually gets thrown at anyone with a non Irish accent calling themselves Irish. I personally don't really identify as anything more and feel kinda stateless but do you think calling yourself Irish should be reserved for those who are born and/or raised there only?

@OchonAgusOchonO

Why is the famine relevant to current times?

@Wolfgirrl - because the famine has contributed hugely to the place Ireland has in the world today. 1m people died as a result of British policy during the famine. However, an additional 1m emigrated during the famine alone. The population of Ireland was 8m pre-famine. It was down 2m post-famine and steadily declined for 100 years afterwards due to the impact of both the famine and British economic policy in Ireland. Once we achieved partial independence, it took time to recover from the impact of British oppression so the economic situation resulted in high levels of emigration for decades afterwards.

That diaspora has resulted in huge numbers of people scattered around the world who feel a connection with Ireland. You only have to look at the USA and the numbers who identify as Irish. The Irish-American vote is something that politicians in the US are very conscious of and consider very carefully. To this day, Irish politicians have a status in the US that no other country of our size or status has. Every year on St Patrick's day, the taoiseach visits the white house to present a bowl of shamrock to the president. If it wasn't for the famine, we would not have this position in the US and elsewhere.

@OchonAgusOchonO

WW2 had an even bigger impact on the UK. Hundreds of thousands of men dead; entire cities flattened; enormous national debt that was only paid off recently; families were split up for years due to evacuation; the country was in tatters. There are not so many veterans left any more, but there are plenty of people whose parents, uncles, grandfathers etc died in the war.

What you're talking about is a demographic shift. Not anything with lasting tangible effects on Ireland. Your statement could be applied to any major incident, such as the black death or the Spanish flu. It changed the course of history, but not in a way that really impacts life today.

But, I am sure you will find a reason for why Ireland is still the victim...

Can you really not see the irony of you playing the victim regarding WW2 while accusing Irish people of doing the same ?

And no, the impact of WW2 was nowhere near the impact of the famine. 1m died in the famine. Hundreds of thousands were evicted from their homes, which impacted on generations down the line.

A quarter of the population of Ireland either died or emigrated during the famine. That is not simply "a demographic shift". Between armed forces and civilians, 350,000 died in the UK during the war. That's out of a population of approximately 45m. That's less than 1% of the population. Contrast that to 12.5% of the population dying of starvation over a 6 year period as a result of British policies and colonialism.

Families bring split up for years doesn't really compare to families never seeing one another again when they emigrated.

Not anything with lasting tangible effects on Ireland.

I'm really hoping that you are not so stupid as to believe this and that you are simply being disingenuous.

Your statement could be applied to any major incident, such as the black death or the Spanish flu.

The Spanish flu and black death were not caused by another country's colonisation and policy of impoverishing and oppressing the population.

It changed the course of history, but not in a way that really impacts life today.

It very much impacts life today. I have already explained to you how it does.

You've explained how it impacted at the time. Not how it makes any real difference to life in Ireland today.

Up to 60% of the population of England died in the plague. Yes it has a 'lasting impact' in the way the famine does, in that our populations would be higher if it hadn't happened; but nobody alive today can recall either event, it has no human or emotional impact. Not unless you're very melodramatic anyway.

And no, the UK did not cause the potato blight. It did not deal with it correctly or fairly, which worsened the death toll. But it did not cause the crops to fail. I actually think you know this but are determined not to acknowledge it.

Effectively what you're saying is that the famine had a bigger 'overall' impact than WW2 did on the UK. Yes, maybe that is the case if you solely take into account the death toll. But like I said, it cannot possibly have as much of an effect today as nobody alive remembers it.

You really need to stop with the theatrics.

You've explained how it impacted at the time. Not how it makes any real difference to life in Ireland today.

Yes, I have explained how it impacts life today. Perhaps re-read my post.

And no, the UK did not cause the potato blight. It did not deal with it correctly or fairly, which worsened the death toll. But it did not cause the crops to fail. I actually think you know this but are determined not to acknowledge it.

Of course the UK did not cause the potato blight. However, they did cause the famine through their policies before and during the famine.

Effectively what you're saying is that the famine had a bigger 'overall' impact than WW2 did on the UK. Yes, maybe that is the case if you solely take into account the death toll. But like I said, it cannot possibly have as much of an effect today as nobody alive remembers it.

You keep going on about how WW2 had a bigger impact than the Famine. You did not, in any post, state that you were referring to the impact on the very small number who are still alive, rather than overall impact.

While nobody is alive today who has experienced the famine, I am aware of the impact on my family. My grandparents were all born in the late 1800's. Their parents and grandparents experienced the effects of the famine first hand. Obviously, they told me stories about it when I was growing up.

You really need to stop with the theatrics.

Bit of pot and kettle there. The majority of those living in the UK have no personal experience of WW2 either.

Everyone alive in Ireland today has ancestors affected by the 'famine'. History doesn't just die out in the generation that lived it. Its repercussions are felt for generations. Ireland is only now in the past 10 years, starting to realise its potential. That's a long time where there were was a lasting and real impact on the people and culture of Ireland.

I'd say born and raised there. I hold Irish citizenship through descent, but don't view myself as Irish as I've never lived there. I'm lived in England all my life. Wish I had lived in Ireland and I hope a move will be on the cards for us in the future.

The majority of those living in the UK have no personal experience of WW2 either.

And none of the Irish have personal experience of the famine. Honestly, it's like you just enjoy claiming trauma and injustice for yourselves.

@Howallergic same can be said for all history. The irish are not special or hard done by.

And none of the Irish have personal experience of the famine.

So? That doesn't mean the impact doesn't exist.

Honestly, it's like you just enjoy claiming trauma and injustice for yourselves.

Again, you are the one who is engaging in dramatic hyperbole regarding the impact of WW2 on people today.

I think at this stage, I need to accept that you can't argue with stupid and stop engaging with you. You seem to be incapable of understanding what people are posting and are determined to see your narrative as the one and only truth.

Take your average working/labouring class English person over the centuries. How are they treated any better than your average Irish person?

*were not are, and by government I mean, over time

@Flaxmeadow - Take your average working/labouring class English person over the centuries. How are they treated any better than your average Irish person?

Are you suggesting that just because they treated their own appallingly, that it was acceptable that they should colonise, murder, exploit and starve people in other countries?

@OchonAgusOchonO

So you claim a famine that happened 200 years ago, which nobody alive today remembers, has more of an effect than events from less than 100 years ago experienced by many still alive today.

The famine didnt flatten cities and burn out unique historical architecture.

The famine didnt incur a national debt that was only paid off in the 21st century.

The famine was not deliberately caused by an act of evil with genocidal aims.

I am not denying the impact of the famine was greater in terms of death toll - but WW2 has by far a greater impact on the people still living today. No objective person with critical thinking skills could refute this.

But in your eyes, because it is irish suffering, it is worse than anyone else's. And even though nobody alive today experienced it, it is worse tha atrocities people alive today have experienced.

The self pitying and desperation to cling onto historical wrong is really weird.

Are you suggesting...

I'm asking question about your average common man

...that just because they treated their own appallingly, that it was acceptable that they should colonise, murder, exploit and starve people in other countries?

Wh9 fonyou mean by "they"?

Could you be more specific and give some examples of dates and events of "colonisation, murder, exploitation and starvation"

@OchonAgusOchonO you know that isnt what Flax is saying, your paraphrasing knows no bounds!

What it is referencing is that you keep banging on about the English public 'acknowledging' their history, even though they were treated appallingly as well! You expect all this sympathy & recognition but give nowt in return.

The famine might not be in living memory but it's part of a long history of mistreatment of Ireland and it's people that went on well into living memory.

Sorry for typos

@Wolfgirrl - please stop tagging me. I've told you that I've accepted you can't argue with stupid and won't be engaging with you.

@Flaxmeadow - Wh9 fonyou mean by "they"?

Given you updated your post to say "*were not are, and by government I mean, over time", I would have thought it was pretty obvious who "they" is.

Could you be more specific and give some examples of dates and events of "colonisation, murder, exploitation and starvation"

No, I couldn't. If your are that ignorant of your own history, I can't be arsed educating you.

@OchonAgusOchonO no, you just can't argue full stop. But okay then.

long history of mistreatment of Ireland and it's people that went on well into living memory

In what way was an Irish person mistreated differently to an English person

@Shinygoldbauble

Yep, same as every other country in the world.

@YearOFF you are both ignorant and stupid.

No, I couldn't. If your are that ignorant of your own history, I can't be arsed educating you.

But you keep saying the Irish were murdered, exploited, treated badly etc . In what way was this different to the English labouring class. You make the claim but can't discuss the comparisons. Your claims needs context