Cloth masks are worse and may increase the rate of infection.

[AnaadiNitya]

Carl Heneghan is a clinical epidemiologist with expertise in evidence-based medicine, research methods, and evidence synthesis.
He is Director of the NIHR SPCR Evidence Synthesis Working Group a collaboration of nine primary care departments across UK universities. He set up and directs the Oxford COVID Evidence Service, has over 400 peer-reviewed publications (current H Index 67); published 95 systematic reviews. He is Editor in Chief of BMJ Evidence-Based Medicine, and Editor of the Catalogue of Bias.

He recently attended an online
aCOVID 19 special response committee meeting. He is saying there is no evidence these masks work especially in the way we are being told to wear them.

Here is the video

Dash board probably fine unless your car resembles a skiplike mine

So, what would you have us do OP?

@AnaadiNitya

He is also the man that forced the government to review the PHE failings

Really? How did he do this?

Thank you for sharing this OP. There is no science behind mask wearing and I refuse to wear the stupid shit properly. I don’t cover my nose and most of the time I pull the mask down. I refuse to conform; this is completely tyranny, no scientific basis whatsoever.

The filter ones are not supposed to be good, if you have covid apparently your shooting it at others via your filter

How?

The “filter” goes across the nose and mouth area and nothing is getting through from either side

Really? How did he do this?

He wrote an article in the Spectator.

It's the general public that forced the issue of wearing cloth masks. It became a sew for Britain mentality and those ( like me) who have worked in infectious diseases were made to feel shit if we weren't wearing those silly cloth things on our faces. The size or a viral particle compared to the size of the gaps between the cloth meant they were never going to work.

Who really knows if they work as we are only really starting to wear them but consider the following -
SE Asian countries have a very low case rate and they wear masks all the time anyway and have done for decades
The decrease in US states seen since mask mandates came into place
The flu rate in Aus where it's flu season and people are wearing masks (clue - it's low)

And then ask yourself - IF wearing this mask does nothing, or if it saves lives, shouldn't I wear it Incase the latter point is true?

Then put your mask on and stop moaning.

@lovelemoncurd

It's the general public that forced the issue of wearing cloth masks. It became a sew for Britain mentality and those ( like me) who have worked in infectious diseases were made to feel shit if we weren't wearing those silly cloth things on our faces. The size or a viral particle compared to the size of the gaps between the cloth meant they were never going to work.

I agree with this. Having worked in the hospital over the pandemic and all the rules we had to abide by with masks etc makes this cloth wearing, touching, pulling, never washing my hands while I'm doing it nonsense in the community seem a bit silly. I think it was the public that pushed the government to to do it and they thought they may as well and hope the economy improves because of it.

@toddlingtwo

Who really knows if they work as we are only really starting to wear them but consider the following - SE Asian countries have a very low case rate and they wear masks all the time anyway and have done for decades The decrease in US states seen since mask mandates came into place The flu rate in Aus where it's flu season and people are wearing masks (clue - it's low)

And then ask yourself - IF wearing this mask does nothing, or if it saves lives, shouldn't I wear it Incase the latter point is true?

Then put your mask on and stop moaning.

Do SE Asian countries wear cloth coverings like here too? I always thought they mainly wore surgical masks.

Argentina have had compulsory masks since mid April - not going too well for them!

Peru have had one of the strictest lockdowns in the world, plus compulsory masks - very high rates of infection per million of the population.

And then ask yourself - IF wearing this mask does nothing, or if it saves lives, shouldn't I wear it Incase the latter point is true?

And IF it increases the chance of transmission because it's worn incorrectly (under the nose, chin hammock between shops) or touched while wearing, then what?

The point is, engage your critical thinking faculties and ask yourself, if tying a bit of t-shirt round your face could stop a virus, wouldn't worldwide epidemics be a thing of the past?

It always seems to me that the people who shout loudest for other to engage in critical thinking are the ones least capable of it themselves.

The vast bulk of evidence points to masks of any kind being useful, medical/respirator style being best but overkill for the general population. By all means don’t wear one or visit places which require them if you don’t like it, but shouting at those who accept it as a minor inconvenience for the benefit of those around it don’t have to agree with you.

@enjoyingscience

It always seems to me that the people who shout loudest for other to engage in critical thinking are the ones least capable of it themselves.

The vast bulk of evidence points to masks of any kind being useful, medical/respirator style being best but overkill for the general population. By all means don’t wear one or visit places which require them if you don’t like it, but shouting at those who accept it as a minor inconvenience for the benefit of those around it don’t have to agree with you.

I do wear a mask. A surgical one. I think the vast array of cloth masks are lulling people in to a false sense of security and they are not adhering to social distancing measures because they have a piece of cloth over their mouths. They are not effective enough.

Working a bit isn’t good enough when areas are on the verge of local lockdowns

I see hardly anyone using masks properly, which is why I find it so annoying. Basic logic says if this bit of fabric is catching droplets that have the scary germs on them, and you then touch the germy fabric repeatedly with your fingers as you fiddle with it / stick it under your nose for a bit / pull it down under your chin / pull it back up / take off and put it in your pocket / get out of pocket and put it back on / fiddle with it some more to get it comfortable - then you may as well have stuck your finger up your nose and licked your palms, in terms of infection control.

And yet there's been nothing from the government to teach the population about mask wearing. No ads, no media campaigns. Ditto no regulations about the types of masks allowed. I could go into a shop wearing a fucking crochet lace mask and it would meet the rules. Doesn't mean it would be doing anything!

I do wear a mask. A surgical one. I think the vast array of cloth masks are lulling people in to a false sense of security and they are not adhering to social distancing measures because they have a piece of cloth over their mouths. They are not effective enough

That's not the masks though is it. That's the people. And surgical masks do exactly the same thing. There's no magic dust on the surgical masks thats making peope adhere to guidelines. You do realise they aren't being purchased eveeyone because they wish to have superior protection. Its like sweets in the supermarket. They are by the tils so they grab themselves another packet while loading up there shopping.

Alot of people I serve have the surgical masks they have to he told to wear them properly of put them on. They are screwed up in pockets. Worn no better than cloth ones and they behave no differently with or without them on.

Oliver,

Rishi was critised for his mask with the vent. Apparently if he had covid, it would be shooting out of the vent in a stream. Rather than spreading over the mask.

I don't know how to link but there are many simulators showing how even a simple mask prevents the spread of a cough or sneeze.
That part is common sense surely.
I thought the nub was whether they caught covid particles which are tiny.

At the very least I would expect them to cut down flu and cold transmission.

We have been quite lax with our mask hygiene but come autumn and winter... It will be very strict!!

It is about reduction of viral load, not 100% protection though. So a mask of almost any description will help to reduce viral load.

I don’t know how to describe mine.

It does have a vent but then
that is covered inside the mask by the solid piece of stiff “cloth” that you insert into a pouch in the mask that is so big it covers almost the entire mask
It is the width of the mask by almost the length and you change them out each day.
It isn’t just a piece of cloth with an open filter it is a thick mask with this added stiffish stuff that not even soaking in water will let anything seep through. It is impervious to water.

Dp wears the surgical masks and they seem to break easily, they also don’t sit round his face and I swear if he sneezed droplets would come flying out of the gaps around his face.

I'm fine with wearing a mask on my travels and in shops, and recognise (unlike some) that masks are there to protect others, not me.

I'm not fine with being told to wear them at work, outside the house and told to wear a particular grade of expensive mask for all of this. This is so much projection by people who don't have a clue, and are expanding their fears across the entire population.

@TinyTornado A correlation is not proof of causation the correlation is very significant, and is consistent with all countries where mask wearing is required, and it is also the advice of Prof Kim WooJu who is the leading expert in SKorea amongst others and the fact that surgeons wear face masks. Your statement sounds fine and sensible until you consider it in context.

There could be a lot of factors that relate to low case numbers in Czechia. Including the fact there are only 10 million people there and it has less than half the population density of the UK.
Another factor that is completely ignored is population age.
Czechia average population age at 41 but Italy’s is 45 these factors will be relevant but will not account for the huge disparity in numbers.

It is far more complex than a simple statement of ‘they wore masks, therefore masks work’ Yes. Yes, it is.

@TinyTornado sorry didn't read through that, will try again. A correlation is not proof of causation the correlation is very significant, ie in terms of the numbers of cases and deaths being a tiny fraction of and not just a small amount less than in other comparable countries, and is consistent with all countries where mask wearing is required, and it is also the advice of Prof Kim WooJu who is the leading expert in SKorea amongst others and the fact that surgeons wear face masks. Your statement sounds fine and sensible until you consider it in context.

There could be a lot of factors that relate to low case numbers in Czechia. Including the fact there are only 10 million people there and it has less than half the population density of the UK. Another factor that is completely ignored is population age. Czechia average population age at 41 but Italy’s is 45 these factors will be relevant but will not account for the huge disparity in numbers.

It is far more complex than a simple statement of ‘they wore masks, therefore masks work’ Yes. Yes, it is.

Surgeons mainly wear masks because they are leaning into wound cavities and don't want an early cannibalistic lunch of bone/blood etc themselves!

The surgeons I work with mainly wear FFP masks even pre Covid, I know of a few occasions when there has been fainting due to re-inhaling their Co2 when mask filters got blocked.

This is the Oxford study

Face Masks Work

The link to the full study is at the end of that article.

Carl is telling people how to wear masks safely.