Cloth masks are worse and may increase the rate of infection.

[AnaadiNitya]

Carl Heneghan is a clinical epidemiologist with expertise in evidence-based medicine, research methods, and evidence synthesis.
He is Director of the NIHR SPCR Evidence Synthesis Working Group a collaboration of nine primary care departments across UK universities. He set up and directs the Oxford COVID Evidence Service, has over 400 peer-reviewed publications (current H Index 67); published 95 systematic reviews. He is Editor in Chief of BMJ Evidence-Based Medicine, and Editor of the Catalogue of Bias.

He recently attended an online
aCOVID 19 special response committee meeting. He is saying there is no evidence these masks work especially in the way we are being told to wear them.

Here is the video

Well based on my 3 hour experience in a healthcare setting today even healthcare professionals including doctors don't wear masks properly. Saw chin hammocks and masks under noses from various members of staff including a doctor. Ho hum but masks will save us all.

Well there has been this on off game all along.
Still gotta wear one so wind yer neck in.

OK I have watched the clip, I do understand where he is coming from, the amount of research in this area, the thing that underpins evidence based practice, is very limited, especially in the UK. So you can avoid getting Flu from your child if you wear a mask 100% of the time, but people are not going to manage that and so the risk of infection increases.
The biggest problem is the ethics of the research into situations in a pandemic, hands up who is happy to get Covid ? it might not effect you physically but can you say the same for all your other family members ? Can you absolutely be sure who you work for will pay for any time off if you partake in the research and become unwell or need to self isolate as a result and can say the same for all your family members and contacts ?

Here we go again

Meh until it's published and peer-reviewed I wouldn't make any assumptions.

Yep he's a renowned epidemiologist, doesn't mean you should automatically take what he says as gospel

@lockdownsunflowers

Fabric masks are security theatre. Gives the public a visible indication that the government are DOING SOMETHING

Agree with this totally. They were trying to encourage people to go shopping

They encourage me to rush around the supermarket, grab essentials and get out as fast as possible. Not been to anywhere else since March, and really unlikely to until the masks are ditched.

@CaptainMyCaptain

They don't wear them as PPE in health care settings, they are not equivalent to the N95 (?) certificated masks worn on covid wards. BUT they do wear them for walking around hospital corridors, offices and in Green areas to avoid potential spread. I made them for all my husband's colleagues in the mri department.

Really? Totally not allowed in my hospital. Surgical masks only everywhere.

My understanding has always been that we (the public) were told that cloth madks are fine because they (the government) didnt want us bulk buying all the surgical masks, thus depriving healthcare workers.

Understandable really when you see what happened with loo roll and hand sanitiser.

@ThickFast

Found this on the BMJ. This is just a bit of it.

Main outcome measure Clinical respiratory illness (CRI), influenza-like illness (ILI) and laboratory-confirmed respiratory virus infection.

Results The rates of all infection outcomes were highest in the cloth mask arm, with the rate of ILI statistically significantly higher in the cloth mask arm (relative risk (RR)=13.00, 95% CI 1.69 to 100.07) compared with the medical mask arm. Cloth masks also had significantly higher rates of ILI compared with the control arm. An analysis by mask use showed ILI (RR=6.64, 95% CI 1.45 to 28.65) and laboratory-confirmed virus (RR=1.72, 95% CI 1.01 to 2.94) were significantly higher in the cloth masks group compared with the medical masks group. Penetration of cloth masks by particles was almost 97% and medical masks 44%.

Read the article - the study was conducted in a hospital. Health care workers either wore a cloth mask or a surgical mask. The control group worked as normal -which included surgical mask wearing for certain procedures. There was no group that wore no mask whatsoever.

Obviously, the cloth mask wearers had the highest rate of infections.

Read the covid update - bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577.responses#covid-19-shortages-of-masks-and-the-use-of-cloth-masks-as-a-last-resort

The cynics here are breathtaking. @lockdownsunflowers

There IS evidence that wearing a face covering prevents droplets being passed If YOU are infected (and presumably to not know that.)

They do not stop it 100% either way (for the wearer who is infected or the person next tot hem.)

However, they are better than nothing.
They will reduce droplets if someone coughs and sneezes.

This is IMPORTANT because severity of the virus is directly linked to virus OVERLOAD. That means the more of it that you breathe in, the worse your infection can be.

Dismissing them as 'theatre' is being ridiculous.

They are not perfect but they are a lot better than coughing over someone.

why don’t you actually read his credentials in the OP. He is the man that forced the Gov to review the PHE data. He is actually at COVID 19 special response meeting.

Go on his Twitter. Read about him. Read about him being the director at the Oxford evidence service.

He really isn’t Dave from down the road doing a you tube video.

People refuse to look at other evidence Other than what the government shovel out its mind blowing.

Why so aggressive and full of assumptions?

Other people had said they didn't trust the video. I added my thoughts on that.

I worked in the field of healthcare respirators for nearly 10 years and I certainly don't follow the government blindly. They've done a terrible job.

I will take quite some convincing to change my opinion on the effectiveness of masks. I'll read his papers when I don't have a cracking headache.

He is great I’ve been following him a while.

The thing is people don’t like to change the status quo. It makes people feel safe if they are using an old bit of t-shirt.

Government - we have no evidence masks work

Public but we want masks

Gov - ok wear masks

This county needs to spoon fed in to security . If the Gov said - ‘if you hop on one leg to the shops you won’t catch COVID’ you’d have a chorus of people shouting ‘but but which leg? And do you alternate to come back’?

I will watch it OP but in terms of real evidence look at Czechia. The only country requiring masks (cloth being better than nothing) from the outset for everyone and a tiny tiny tiny fraction of deaths and cases. Also the evidence of the Asian leading epidemiologists who have been through this before. And the UK's track record of advice thru the pandemic. I would back Czechia, S Korea and HK myself. If however the video is about making thicker cloth masks and making sure they are boil washed and having to wear them everywhere outside the home until it is all under control, then I'd agree with him.

Just to add - Czechia required them from the outset for everyone everywhere outside the home - it worked.

I thought it was known. It even says on the govt website there is no evidence that mask stop the spread lmao

Articles being peer-reviewed isn't always a badge of accuracy either -retractionwatch.com/

I've heard it all now, mask theatre

I saw simulator today with mask and without and how far cough droplets spray without the mask.
It seems commonsense to me if some of these droplets can remain contained!

Read the covid update - bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577.responses#covid-19-shortages-of-masks-and-the-use-of-cloth-masks-as-a-last-resort

Well it’s not really an update as it was done at the beginning of March and who is realistically washing their mask and using sanitizer on it. It even goes on to day this is just a pragmatic view and not evidence based.

There was this study saying that stretchy neck gaitors unfortunately actually are really good at making the droplets into really small aerosols that are much better at spreading the virus.
www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/neck-gaiters-may-do-more-harm-than-not-wearing-a-mask-at-all-study-shows/

Results The rates of all infection outcomes were highest in the cloth mask arm, with the rate of ILI statistically significantly higher in the cloth mask arm (relative risk (RR)=13.00, 95% CI 1.69 to 100.07) compared with the medical mask arm. Cloth masks also had significantly higher rates of ILI compared with the control arm. An analysis by mask use showed ILI (RR=6.64, 95% CI 1.45 to 28.65) and laboratory-confirmed virus (RR=1.72, 95% CI 1.01 to 2.94) were significantly higher in the cloth masks group compared with the medical masks group. Penetration of cloth masks by particles was almost 97% and medical masks 44%.

I really find it staggering that this is still being discussed.
We have been told by leading scientists from SK and HK for MONTHS that:

1. medical is better than cloth
2. thick cloth is better than thin cloth - is the "cloth" in the above thick or thin? presumably thin but why does it not say?
3. You are protected more by the OTHER person wearing a mask.

So there is nothing new or exciting in this research judging by that one quote and it does not detract from the positive evidence re mask wearing.

I wonder if people who wear cloth masks, which will be the general public, are more likely to put themselves in riskier situations than those who don’t. Which may well contribute to the spread.

Like what?

Going to work on the Tube or randomly sneezing and snogging everybody they happen to see?

FFS. So if you wear a cloth mask you are singlehandedly responsible for the spread COVID across the globe.

Disposable masks are not necessarily worn in a more responsible way, so lay off.

It even says on the govt website there is no evidence that mask stop the spread lmao
this is the govmt which passed legislation in feb but doesn't follow other countries with lockdowns and other measure taking at all until late march and not as effectively even at that point...

@Sophiafour no of course not but clearly a paper that has been written by several collaborators, accepted by a reputable journal and been through several rounds of peer-review is more reliable than a tweet and a youtube video!

@ThickFast

gamerchick snap. I find videos so annoying. Can you watch it for me and summarise? Pretty please?

I agree, I rarely have the time or inclination to sit through a video but will happily skim read a summary :)

@iseeu

Results The rates of all infection outcomes were highest in the cloth mask arm, with the rate of ILI statistically significantly higher in the cloth mask arm (relative risk (RR)=13.00, 95% CI 1.69 to 100.07) compared with the medical mask arm. Cloth masks also had significantly higher rates of ILI compared with the control arm. An analysis by mask use showed ILI (RR=6.64, 95% CI 1.45 to 28.65) and laboratory-confirmed virus (RR=1.72, 95% CI 1.01 to 2.94) were significantly higher in the cloth masks group compared with the medical masks group. Penetration of cloth masks by particles was almost 97% and medical masks 44%.

I really find it staggering that this is still being discussed.
We have been told by leading scientists from SK and HK for MONTHS that:

1. medical is better than cloth
2. thick cloth is better than thin cloth - is the "cloth" in the above thick or thin? presumably thin but why does it not say?
3. You are protected more by the OTHER person wearing a mask.

So there is nothing new or exciting in this research judging by that one quote and it does not detract from the positive evidence re mask wearing.

Virus rates have gone up and I think it’s due to the fact people feel more ‘safe’ with a cloth mask on and not sticking to guidelines. When there was no masks people mainly stayed away from each other. Now they are happy to lean over some one to get their shopping.