Cloth masks are worse and may increase the rate of infection.

[AnaadiNitya]

Carl Heneghan is a clinical epidemiologist with expertise in evidence-based medicine, research methods, and evidence synthesis.
He is Director of the NIHR SPCR Evidence Synthesis Working Group a collaboration of nine primary care departments across UK universities. He set up and directs the Oxford COVID Evidence Service, has over 400 peer-reviewed publications (current H Index 67); published 95 systematic reviews. He is Editor in Chief of BMJ Evidence-Based Medicine, and Editor of the Catalogue of Bias.

He recently attended an online
aCOVID 19 special response committee meeting. He is saying there is no evidence these masks work especially in the way we are being told to wear them.

Here is the video

I have skepticism about that video because of the emergence of deep fake videos and his words don't exactly match his lip patterns. Could be/is likely acoustics but I'm still not 100%.

Cloth masks do not work that’s why they are not allowed in health care settings.

They don't work as well as N95 respirators. In order of effectiveness, it's always been

1. respirator
2. surgical mask (well fitting, changed at appropriate intervals with aseptic technique)
3. anything else

Cloth masks are an unknown quantity because they're all different and it would be very difficult and expensive to test them all. I wear either two later cotton or two layer cotton plus non woven centre, which are likely to be significantly better than a one layer stretchy home bargains thing.

The trouble is that people don't wear even surgical masks or n95s properly, and there was (i presume still is) not eggnog to go around so healthcare providers rightly had to be precise with them as priority not general public.

As far as i can tell this isn't really news...

Enough* although maybe eggnog could help...

The article that was out this week (Edinburgh uni?) comparing different masks has scarf type masks at the bottom.

Fabric masks will contain some coughs/sneezes etc. Better than nothing, if used properly.

Does medical mask mean the disposable masks we can get in shops or does it mean a higher grade mask only available to hospitals/dentists etc?

Don’t know. Here’s a link to the article.

bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577

@nocoolnamesleft

That seems to be about whether they protect the wearer, if everyone else is bare faced. Because cloth masks aren't great at stopping incoming droplets. Which is not what the mask wearing policy is about. The mask wearing policy is about having everyone wearing a mask so that they don't shed droplets in all directions. Which there's quite a lot of evidence for them working for.

How come they stop outgoing droplets but not incoming? Surely if fabric creates a barrier it works both ways?

Perhaps the government should be telling us to wear masks to protect ourselves and not other people and advising on what is most effective.

They don't wear them as PPE in health care settings, they are not equivalent to the N95 (?) certificated masks worn on covid wards. BUT they do wear them for walking around hospital corridors, offices and in Green areas to avoid potential spread. I made them for all my husband's colleagues in the mri department.

Fabric masks are security theatre. Gives the public a visible indication that the government are DOING SOMETHING

Agree with this totally. They were trying to encourage people to go shopping

@TheDrsDocMartens

The article that was out this week (Edinburgh uni?) comparing different masks has scarf type masks at the bottom.

Fabric masks will contain some coughs/sneezes etc. Better than nothing, if used properly.

So why do I have to wear one if I'm not coughing or sneezing??

Agree with the pp who said it's a performance. It's all about being seen to do something. Whether it's actually effective is besides the point. The government get a big, visible "measure" that hasn't cost them a penny.

Quite fail - that was in response to the person who said cloth masks are not worn in health care settings. They are

I was always under the impression that wearing masks other than the respirator type ones was more about protecting other people and not the wearer ?
So if you cough or sneeze whilst wearing one, the distance the droplets travel is reduced and hopefully mainly kept behind the mask. It is one of three things that people should be doing to reduce spread , social distancing where possible and handwashing/sanitising being the other two.
It would be interesting to see research of how far droplets travel and how many escape due to fitting, when someone is wearing a cloth mask.

www.cebm.net/covid-19/masking-lack-of-evidence-with-politics/

The Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine develops, promotes and disseminates better evidence for healthcare.

The piece above shows what evidence was used when writing the piece that suggests cloth masks are worse etc....

Though for me even if the evidence is slim I'm still happy to wear a mask even just on the off chance it might protect someone at some point it's not a big price to pay

A tiny bit of fabric strung loosely over one’s face has always seemed to me pointless at best and counter productive at worst, when mishandled, continuously touched etc. I don’t know what the solution is though - lots of people can’t afford or access ‘proper’ masks

@TheFormerPorpentinaScamander I think the theory is that they slow your out breath / absorb droplets, so you don't shed as much if you're infected.

If you're wearing one and are in contact with someone who is infected and doesn't have a mask, I guess your mask could absorb droplets from their breath.

I think the cloth masks can make it worse. I have yet to find a way to stop my glasses steaming up so I can see, the other day they were so steamed up that I had to keep pulling the mask off my nose to let them clear. I paid for petrol and didn't see sign to go down the other aisle on the way out because my glasses were so steamed up. I was trying to find a particular product in the supermarket to avoid allergies and couldn't read the small print because my glasses were steamed up. I can take my glasses off of course but then I can't see to read the small print either. I know there are sprays people say to use but my optician says they damage the anti-glare coating on my glasses.

I also prefer written form (and I'm dyslexic!)

Reason is you can scan back and forth and use the numbers and explanations to inform your own thinking and opinion.

When watching a video unless you treat it like a uni lecture and take down notes it's hard to remember fact and figure number 23 and compare it to no1.

And I've done uni once - that was enough

“Cloth mask” is a very wide term.

There are many variables in how cloth masks are made.

Some cloth masks will be better than others.

If you want to wear a medical mask then do so.

@PermaStress

I have skepticism about that video because of the emergence of deep fake videos and his words don't exactly match his lip patterns. Could be/is likely acoustics but I'm still not 100%.

Cloth masks do not work that’s why they are not allowed in health care settings.

They don't work as well as N95 respirators. In order of effectiveness, it's always been

1. respirator
2. surgical mask (well fitting, changed at appropriate intervals with aseptic technique)
3. anything else

Cloth masks are an unknown quantity because they're all different and it would be very difficult and expensive to test them all. I wear either two later cotton or two layer cotton plus non woven centre, which are likely to be significantly better than a one layer stretchy home bargains thing.

The trouble is that people don't wear even surgical masks or n95s properly, and there was (i presume still is) not eggnog to go around so healthcare providers rightly had to be precise with them as priority not general public.

As far as i can tell this isn't really news...

Perma why don’t you actually read his credentials in the OP. He is the man that forced the Gov to review the PHE data. He is actually at COVID 19 special response meeting.

Go on his Twitter. Read about him. Read about him being the director at the Oxford evidence service.

He really isn’t Dave from down the road doing a you tube video.

People refuse to look at other evidence Other than what the government shovel out its mind blowing.

Well then don’t wear a mask pet. You do you.

@ThickFast

Found this on the BMJ. This is just a bit of it.

Main outcome measure Clinical respiratory illness (CRI), influenza-like illness (ILI) and laboratory-confirmed respiratory virus infection.

Results The rates of all infection outcomes were highest in the cloth mask arm, with the rate of ILI statistically significantly higher in the cloth mask arm (relative risk (RR)=13.00, 95% CI 1.69 to 100.07) compared with the medical mask arm. Cloth masks also had significantly higher rates of ILI compared with the control arm. An analysis by mask use showed ILI (RR=6.64, 95% CI 1.45 to 28.65) and laboratory-confirmed virus (RR=1.72, 95% CI 1.01 to 2.94) were significantly higher in the cloth masks group compared with the medical masks group. Penetration of cloth masks by particles was almost 97% and medical masks 44%.

All this is saying is that medical masks are better than cloth masks at protecting the wearer. I don't think anyone doubted that.

Considering that 16,820 NHS staff are off sick or isolating due to COVID - that doesn’t surprise me*

There are 1.4 million people working for the NHS. 17,000 is not that many, given the risks involved in working in an environment you’re more likely to come into contact with Covid.

Ok love. You believe that. I believe the articles I have read to say that they are effective in stoping spread as you sneeze into the mask, therefore the spray is less

Ash them after each wear and you will be fine

[quote Utini]@TheFormerPorpentinaScamander I think the theory is that they slow your out breath / absorb droplets, so you don't shed as much if you're infected.

If you're wearing one and are in contact with someone who is infected and doesn't have a mask, I guess your mask could absorb droplets from their breath.[/quote]
Thanks. That makes sense actually. Plus I guess a mask doesn't cover your eyes so you aren't completely protected !

@Chloemol

Ok love. You believe that. I believe the articles I have read to say that they are effective in stoping spread as you sneeze into the mask, therefore the spray is less

Ash them after each wear and you will be fine

Ok. I’ll believe the man that’s already advising the government and has credibility and qualifications coming out his Jackson and 400 per reviews behind him. You crack on with your articles 👍