What are your thoughts on all girls schools?

[Cupidity]

DD is going into year 6 and we're going to have to apply for secondary schools very soon. Due to covid we haven't been able to look around any schools and so we're struggling to imagine what they are like.

One of the best secondary schools locally (if she passed the 11+) is an all girl's grammar school.

DD seems keenest on this one as it's the one her closet friends are hoping to go to. However, I'm not sure what an all girl's school will be like. What are the advantages and disadvantages of it?

My best friend is a boy I met at school when I was 12. I would have missed out on over 30 years of friendship if I'd gone to a single sex school.

I went to an all girls grammar school. I think research shows that single sex schools work well for girls and not so good for boys - if academics are your focus.

Biggest downside for me was feeling that I was pushed into STEM subjects when I might have done better (or been more fulfilled professionally?) had I been allowed to explore more creative subjects.

I got straight As in my GCSEs but then had to move to a mixed sixth form where I flunked two out of four A Levels and went from being Oxbridge material to just scraping into Uni. For me I think the transition from all girls to mixed at A level was a disaster and it was options re this transition that influenced my choice of secondary school for my own DDs. Worth bearing in mind.

I was educated at an all-girls private school in the States. It was a fantastic experience. I had amazing sister-like friendships with the girls from school that continues to this day (some 25+ years later).

When I left my primary school, I was quiet, bookish, fat and with zero self-confidence and well aware of the ways others girls behaved and changed their appearances in order to appeal to the opposite sex. In an all-girls environment, all of that pressure and pretension went away.

I loved it. Non of the bitchiness etc mentioned above, just nice friendly girls.
I think the only problem was that the boys equivalent was a couple of miles away which meant mixed events weren't so easy. My older 2 boys also went to a single sex school but it was sited right next to the girls school and had a shared 6th form, so plenty of mixing.

I went to three different all girls schools over the duration of my schooling, as well as four coed schools, one of which was a comp in the UK. One was a smart independent boarding school, the other two were semi state funded but with a long history of educating the upper middle class girls of the area.

The best education I received was at a non-UK coed high school. It was inclusive, supportive, fun, and academic enough without forcing pupils down that road.

The girls' schools certainly were a very good fit for many attendees, highly academic and focused on building confidence and so on. The issue is that there is often a real hegemony around what it means to be a girl, when it comes to girls schools.

It was about building confidence in being a very specific type of girl, I suppose. Being gay, odd, fat, foreign, highly sexed, assertive, outspoken, angry, etc etc - anything that isn't white-bread classically feminine/girlish in a very specific western sense of the word - was aggressively quashed by staff and fellow pupils alike.

That was my experience. I was struggling with a hard home life and was very sexual from an early age - this combined with being a questioning, dissenting kind of person meant i was severely hemmed in and penalized for existing. For example one school asked me to leave as a punishment for shaving my head, which looking back was so absurd. I was being sexually abused and was acting out. It wasnt really brain surgery and "inviting me not to return" to the school was a clear "fuck you" to a child who was struggling and needed support.

They really wanted girls who were "respectable", modest, sweet, accommodating, etc while publicly saying that they were helping mold future female leaders etc etc.

If your dd would thrive in a more conformist environment, it might be a good fit. I needed more space to exist and figure things out. Depends on the school as well, some have wonderful pastoral care that might be much more accommodating of all types of girls.

I did 11-16 mixed, then chose to move to the all girls sixth form
I was studying sciences and maths. Honestly... It's was brilliant being away from the boys domineering everything in lessons. I would never have considered studying Engineering at university before that. I also escaped my bullies by moving.

My dd is at an all girls school and it's brilliant. I knew quite early on that she would function better in that environment and then after observing a few lessons at her mixed primary where the boys totally dominated the entire time and space I was convinced it was the right thing for her. Going into year 9 and she's doing very well.

I went to a girls school and liked it a lot. When I became a teacher myself in a mixed secondary I was shocked by how much of a teachers time and effort is taken up by boys and was very glad that had never been an issue for me as a pupil.

I experienced both in the mid/late 90s. More contrasts than just single sex because I moved at age 17 from the mixes state comprehensive I’d been at all my school life to a selective independent girls’ school for A levels. The girls’ school I went to wasn’t terribly posh though. Anyway, my experience was that the girls’ school was immeasurably better - hard to know how much had to do with it being all girls, but the culture was way more supportive, girls were much more accomplished and focussed on learning and many were excelling in STEM subjects that in my previous school had been totally dominated by boys. I also experienced a lot of grim pressures around sex/porn etc. from the boys in my previous school at a younger age and there was none of that at the girls’ school.

The only thing I’d flag is that there was a bit of a tendency for girls at my all-girls school to idolise boyfriends and (IMO) undersell themselves when it came to boyfriends! I think it was particularly acute for girls who didn’t mix with boys out of school via brothers, hobbies etc. So I’d definitely encourage your DD to have some hobbies outside school where she gets to know boys as peers too.

DD has ended up (after a false start and school refusal at the most local mixed school) at a large all girls comp, former grammar. Very high expectations of the children, exemplary pastoral and she's very happy. She has 2 brothers so she's had more than enough boy exposure to last her till 6th form.

I went to both all girls and mixed schools for secondary. IMO all of the culture of the school depends on the way it is run. And what is right for the individual child. We're all aware of the stats re girls performing better academically in single sex environment. All this stuff about "bitchiness" smacks of internalised misogyny and no different to any school situation.

Hated mine - but when I went to do A-levels in the mixed 6th form college I was shocked how much a group of boys dominated. I remember one subject where they'd shout out random numbers for each of their mates at the end of every session. One of the other girls, who had went to school with the muppet squad ever-so-concernedly told me one day that they were taking bets on which girl dared to speak up most each lesson and I should know so I didn't end up top of their lists.

My response was to make sure I topped every list so their betting syndicate died off - and I'm kind of glad I wasn't exposed to that crap earlier - but the bullying and bitchiness was horrendous at school. Not sure what I'd choose for my daughters if I had options (we don't really around here). The way DD1 can flutter her eyelashes and start almost simpering when an older boy is around sometimes (she's only flipping 8!) makes me sometimes wonder if locking her up in a convent would be a possibility!

I went to an all girls grammar, absolutely the best environment for girls to be educated in is single sex at secondary, imo.

Yes there was a bit of cliquey-ness but I think you get that in any school - although of course there are exceptions - this is my experience only - go with your gut having visited.
For me, so many of the benefits vs mixed are only apparent when I really think about them...

• Lack of distractions once past a certain age - I remember how much effort I put into "looking nice" when meeting up with the boys from the nearby boys grammar at the weekend, I'd have hated to have this to worry about every day! Couple that with more "advanced" distractions... couples in class, breakups in school, sex in the toilets.....(maybe that last one is just my friend's dodgy secondary but I'm sure it goes on!) There's so much pressure on teenagers these days anyway, bringing romance/sex into school- for the majority of straight pupils- really can't make it any easier
• Females in leadership roles at all levels, it was just normal to have a female headteacher, a female MP came in to talk to us - females did Big Jobs this was just a normal thing you could pursue
• There were no boys or girls subjects - girls did everything (of course)
• Same with sports, I did netball & tennis but also rugby, athletics, squash
• I am still very good friends with a lot of women I went to school with, you might get this in any school but I do think our experience of being in a safe, girls only environment fostered that closeness

And finally, I went on to study a very male dominated subject at university, and work in a very male dominated industry - and I'm convinced that, strange as it may sound, being educated up to the age of 18 in an all girls environment makes that far easier - by then much of your mindset has developed, so walking into a lecture hall/office with only men I already felt confident in my abilities and an equal.

Go & visit a few schools, if your daughter's keen I'd go for it.

My DDs both went to our local mixed comp and I wouldn't have it any other way. They've both done very well academically (DD2 going into Yr 13) and more importantly, they have both formed healthy friendships across the board, with both girls and boys. I come from a country where there is no single sex education and things seem to turn out fine, so I'm sceptical about it.

*I went to an all girls school.

It was very hormonal. After 'Take That' split, half the school didn't turn up the next day. grin*

This happened at my mixed comp as well 😂😂😂

Depends on the child. Depends on the school. Depends on the girls as a group. It can either be the best thing or the worst thing.
If your daughter is particularly keen on an all-girls school, then go for it.

@Chevron123

I went to an all girls grammar school. I think research shows that single sex schools work well for girls and not so good for boys - if academics are your focus.

Biggest downside for me was feeling that I was pushed into STEM subjects when I might have done better (or been more fulfilled professionally?) had I been allowed to explore more creative subjects.

I got straight As in my GCSEs but then had to move to a mixed sixth form where I flunked two out of four A Levels and went from being Oxbridge material to just scraping into Uni. For me I think the transition from all girls to mixed at A level was a disaster and it was options re this transition that influenced my choice of secondary school for my own DDs. Worth bearing in mind.

I’ve also heard of course that girls do better academically in single sex schools. Hugely interested to understand how this is determined though, as nearly all single sex schools are grammar or private schools where you have to be more academic in the first place. Then of course the teaching “may” be better in grammar or private. So how do we know it’s down to the single sex aspect?

My DD went to an all girls' grammar for a while (recently), and really loved it. It was a lovely school.
My DN went to a different all girls' grammar and apparently it was toxic - very cliquy and bitchy. She's convinced that all girls' schools are awful, and has found it hard to believe how nice my DD's school was.
So try to find out what the ethos / atmosphere is. This will partly depend on the leadership team.

My niece goes to an all girls school and I did too, she had the option of going to a mixed school but says she’s glad she chose all girls. Apparently it is quite competitive (whether this is just the school or has something to do with it being all girls I don’t know) she gets the bus with the boy who go to the sister school and says they’re rude, swear a lot and make the journey unpleasant. She does enjoy being in a single sex environment and thinks it’s less disruptive than it was in primary school. She’s in year nine going into year ten for reference

I went to an all girls school and loved it.

@edwinbear

I went to an all girls (independent) school. I was very happy there. It was academic and the ethos was very much about getting the best education you can to give you choice. So if you want to be a doctor/lawyer/accountant, great, but choosing to stay at home to raise your family is also a very valid choice, but a good education allows you to make that choice.

Many people worry about bullying at all girls schools, I didn’t witness any of that, it was a supportive, nurturing environment. We had a school reunion a few years back and it was fascinating the breadth of careers people had taken. Doctors, lawyers, bankers, teachers, but also many SAHM’s, women running their own businesses, even a professional story teller!

Not me but my dtr went to a single sex school and she would absolutely echo the above post. She loved it and gets pee'd off at the number of times people assume that it must have been a 'bitchy' environment etc.

I went to an all girls school. I had no issues while there, but when I left I was so shy around boys and had no idea how to act around them. I found it really difficult to form relationships with them. I vowed I would never send any child of mine to a single sex school . My DD went to a mixed secondary and most of her best friend were boys. I believe my sister had the same experience.

I went to an all-girls school and would have liked the same for my daughter. Until male socialization improves to the point that boys do not feel they have to put girls down I think girls thrive more without them around.

I went to an all girls high school, no particular problems. DD1 is going into year 8 at an all girls and is very happy there. We had an equal chance at two outstanding schools, one single sex, one mixed and she refused point blank to go to the mixed, despite all her friends going there. She doesn't regret her decision at all.

I feel single sex schooling for both sexes is a backward and an old fashioned concept.

How can girls learn boys are not the spawn of Saten and see them as normal people if we don't mix them for 7 years.

Telling them they learn better without them is very detrimental to boys and to girls going forward if they are to assume men are equals in adulthood.

However I accept this is a societal change and needs to happen in many aspects of life. I just dont like the message we are sending out to young women. As if adults accept and support that we don't trust young people to be decent around each other. Hence the enforced separation.

I Also know this view is not supported by MN

DD is about to start at a girls school for 6th Form coming from a co-ed boarding school. She chose it for many reasons but the main ones are:
A bigger pool of girls for friendship groups.
Final years of study with no boys around to be a distraction.
Away from boys dominating in class.
Ability to be a day student also came into it.