Help! I don't want to pay FIL's bills!

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The background: DH has 3 siblings who live nearby. MIL died a few years ago, so FIL lives alone in the house DH grew up in. They describe themselves as "very close" and have always gone to FIL's twice a week for dinner (just the siblings and their kids, not partners). When MIL was alive, she cooked; since her death, they take it in turns to cook, so DH cooks once every other week. This costs about £25 each time, so about £50 per month.

FIL has recently retired. He has absolutely no savings (MIL was a HUGE spender and just spent it all), and gets only a state pension. He's realised that he can't afford to pay for all the bills. The house has 6 bedrooms, so it's huge, expensive Council tax, expensive to heat etc.

In my head, the solution is that he needs to move somewhere smaller and more manageable. However, DH & siblings are not in favour of this because then they wouldn't be able to go round all at once, certainly not twice a week.

His brother has suggested that they all chip in each month to cover the bills - about £50 each. So including the cost of cooking once a fortnight, we'd be forking out about £100 a month for this.

We could afford it, but we'd be sacrificing other things. For instance, we'd like to move to a bigger house (the kids would love some outdoor space). But that would be very tight financially if we had this extra money to pay each month. We'd also like to start saving some money for the kids each month too - £25 each would build up to a decent amount.

DH agrees with me in principle, but is being put under pressure by his siblings. He said he'd feel bad continuing to go to dinner twice a week if he wasn't paying his share. But he also doesn't want FIL to have to move, thereby possibly meaning that they can no longer all visit together.

There was a vague suggestion at one stage that if FIL didn't have enough space, they'd all take it in turns to go round each others' houses, so we'd host every other week. This won't work because both me and one of the other siblings partners work from home and it would be too disruptive (and anyway, I don't really want a big crowd of people in the house once a fortnight). Again, I feel like I'm getting in the way of the plans.

Any suggestions? Is it unfair of me to say no to us paying money to FIL each month? Or is it reasonable to expect him to live within his means, even if that means moving house?

@JoshLymanIsHotterThanSam

I think that the siblings don’t want him sell and downsize because they’ve got pound signs in their eyes for the inheritance that will come off a 6 bed house when FIL dies.

The money will still be there unless he becomes a globe trotting playboy !

Sorry, but I wouldn’t be paying any of his bills. I’d like to be a big spender like your MIL was but I’m sensible enough to think of the future. Why should I be sacrificing things for my family when MIL and FIL spent recklessly.

Jesus Christ. The only time we ever have that many people together is at Christmas.

Why does every one have to visit at once? Isn't the point to make sure FIL isn't lonely? Not to have a huge family get together twice a week.

Why, at that price, can't he downsize, and once a week, in rotation, can't a sibling take him for a carvery or something? At least you can get discount vouchers for carveries to keep the costs down.

No way would I enable this lifestyle of spending. And I can't imagine ever being in a position where I'd allow my own kids to pay for it. That's just not why you have children.

@FedUpAtHomeTroels

The amount ecided on his bills, will change, and year on year bills go up and so will your share. This is a stupid idea. He needs a nice two bed house, they have dining rooms and a small garden and he'd be able to take care of it better and he'd have money of his own to pay his bills. It does sound like the siblings are more concerned about thier inheritance than their dad coping in his own home. Similar situation with my Mums friend, but he can afford his large house with no problem, but an 85 year old rattling around a 4 bed house with rooms he doesn't go into for months on end is silly.

This is one of my biggest concerns - I think the monthly amount will go up and up. And when things need to be fixed, I imagine it'll be up to the siblings to pay for those as well. In terms of cleaning the house, I don't know what will happen - again I think it may well end up being the siblings splitting it between themselves.

Having been in a very similar situation with my FIL I'd be deeply unhappy about this.

My FIL didn't want to downsize when MIL died and ended up borrowing ££££'s from us and said he would pay it back. He's only repaid some and we've had no further repayments in the last 18 months. It also transpires that he's taken equity release more than once and pissed away tens of thousands with nothing to show for it.

He still lives in the too big house with his second wife and he can barely afford to run it nor keep on top of the gardens etc. Due to the equity release they can't afford to move. Total madness. If he'd have just downsized when he had been widowed and retired then he/we wouldn't be in this mess.

If he can’t afford a huge house he will have to downsize and that doesn’t mean they can’t still have the dinners together

Bills are only likely to go up and what happens if in the future one sibling can’t pay their share

We had a similar situation regarding mil care home fees elder dbil wanted the family to pay rather than sell the house £200 pm each excluding one db who is on benefits I refused as we could afford it now but who knows what the future holds and how would inheritance work out as one dB hadn’t paid

He has to downsize. All they need to look for is a much smaller house with a very large kitchen.

No, he absolutely needs to downsize. Your DH and siblings have an emotional attachment to the house and do not want to let it go and their solution is to pour more money into the pot. He previously had uncontrolled spending supposedly via late MIL so how do you know it will not go the same way.

Once a house has it's furnishings removed, it becomes just bricks and mortar, no longer a loved family home. It needs to be sold and he could stay in the area in a more manageable sized home. It could come to the stage where his health means a sale is forced any way.

This issue could possibly cause a family fall out and your dh is likely to go along with it to keep the peace and not appear to be the mean one so I am afraid you will have to brace yourself.

Fwiw, I also need to downsize, I host family do's. I find them exhausting now and really no longer enjoy them. You can visit without the need to prepare meals everytime. It is not just finances that makes me want to downsize; the garden is too big and there are unused rooms in the house. Council tax band G. I know it needs to go and I have brought up two young families here as a grandparent carer. It will be a sad day, but I need to move on to another part of our lives, as does your FIL.

He can't afford to live there, therefore he has to move. End of. It is not your responsibility to make up for his lack of planning for his retirement.

You don't need 6 bedrooms to host a family dinner. He should downsize. In fact I'm surprised the council aren't pushing for this already. He could look into pension credit and other benefits he may be entitled to?

Why would the council get involved?

Has anyone actually done the calculations - I now get my pension, 690 every 4 weeks so roughly about 8400 a year. Not enough to be taxed. Does FIL really have no other pensions?
Council Tax on my big house is 2000+ per annum. That's a big outlay. And heating in the winter is expensive.
Unless you have really done the calculation and know what his heating bills are etc then this sounds doomed to fail.

A 6 bed house for one person is way excessive.
As others have said, he should downsize.
A through lounge would give space for a large dining table, and a folding table (gateleg, pull out leaves, etc), give flexibility for dining.

For those asking how he afforded the house in the first place, he had a decent enough job, bought the house as a 3-bed (I think) back when houses were much cheaper, and then extended it. It's one of those extensions with stairs everywhere as well.

He's mid-60s, in good health, so could easily (hopefully) live for a couple of decades yet.

In terms of the DC having a great relationship with their cousins, they don't really, due to the mix of ages. The oldest cousin bosses the others around; DS can't be bothered with it and apparently just takes himself off into the play room or wherever he can get space. DD tags along but isn't that interested in playing with them.

To clarify, a combination of being teachers and working flexitime means they are able to turn up at FIL's in time for dinner at 4.30/5ish. The other outlaws are working at that time, so it's not so much that we're not invited, we just can't make it there in time. Though the few times I've gone, the siblings don't talk to me; they just "banter" each other for a couple of hours and I just sit there. Any attempt I make at conversation is fairly quickly shot down by the banter. It's pretty tedious.

FIL has had enough sense to take stock and has realised that he cannot afford to run the house.

That means that this is the easiest and optimal time for him to make changes.

If the siblings take over and force a different decision, they are saying that they are taking all the financial risk for him in future.

If he stays under these conditions , it will be much harder for him to move at a later date.

@MistressMounthaven

Has anyone actually done the calculations - I now get my pension, 690 every 4 weeks so roughly about 8400 a year. Not enough to be taxed. Does FIL really have no other pensions? Council Tax on my big house is 2000+ per annum. That's a big outlay. And heating in the winter is expensive. Unless you have really done the calculation and know what his heating bills are etc then this sounds doomed to fail.

I haven't been privy to the details of the conversations. I don't think they've even factored in things like heating in the winter etc.

FIL downsizes, money is put aside to pay for his future care needs.
Whole-Family dinners reduced to once a week.
So it’s once a month at your house. Is your work something you can take to a cafe for an evening? Or dh could step up and do more house-jobs/take the kids out to give you another time to work.

Alternatively tell dh that you’ll need the same amount spent on you as on him. If he gets £100 a month to spend how he likes (on his Dad) then so do you, and what sacrifices is he going to make so that money is available?

What does your FIL actually want? Does he want such a huge number of people around twice a week? I wonder if he's doing it to keep them happy? Surely spreading through the week and maybe a monthly group catch up would give him better company. Does he want a 6 bedroom house that he has to clean and maintain? Does he want his DC paying for him? Has anyone asked him?

I think your DH needs to step up, call a meeting with his siblings and say, 'we need to take the emotion out of this and be practical. Dad can't afford to live here anymore and could have a better quality of life if he downsized. Even if we help, he'll still have a limited life due to lack of disposable income, when downsizing could release equity and give him more freedom.'

Times move on and life changes. They need to agree to look for a new house. You don't need a separate dining room - just an open plan kitchen, with room for a large table. In summer, they can sit outside for more room. It might not be found instantly, but they need to commit to looking and securing within 12 months. I feel for you OP - this kind of family set-up would drive me crazy!

Oh, just read your update. If the kids aren’t enjoying it, really time to stop. Dh can go round later in the evening once a week. To FILs downsized house.

Yes, you are completely right that he should downsize, but it doesn't sound like your voice would be heard here, as there are too many people involved.
I think you need to forget about including the £50 a month already spent on the dinners, because you're getting really good value there. This is for meals they'd be having at home so isn't much extra, plus plenty of people meet their siblings down the pub or on day trips and spend a lot more than that.
So really it's the £50 a month in bills contribution that's bothering you. If this will affect your finances, you could consider asking your DH where he's going to 'claw that back' elsewhere. This sets a good precedent in case that amount gets pushed up.
It does seem inevitable that he will need to downsize eventually though.

Does he own the house outright? If so there is an immense amount of money locked up in it. If one of the siblings has plenty of money at the moment, they could buy part of the house off him - then he could stay there for now, and this sibling would get that part of the equity when it's eventually sold. (Though definitely get legal advice to check this works).

I'm not sure I've ever heard anything as silly as bankrolling a man staying in a 6 bedroom house in order that family can go there for dinner a few times a month.

As far as I know he owns the house outright - I vaguely remember him paying off the mortgage when DH and I were just dating (12 years ago).

In terms of FIL's wishes, I'm not sure that they've really asked him. I think he's said "the bills are getting a bit much" and the siblings have swung into action.

I imagine he'd prefer to stay in his current house, but I don't know how strongly he feels. He's a quiet man, who basically spent his life doing what MIL told him, so he doesn't tend to have strong opinions on things!

It is what it is. Maybe your FIL wouldn't be in this position if your MIL hadn't been a 'big spender'. Maybe he would. How do you know about their finances or her spending? Wasn't it her/their money anyway? Maybe your DH and his siblings wouldn't have had to help out if their parents had had a smaller house or a smaller family? Either way, expecting him to move or downside because that's sensible or practical isn't going to cut through the emotional ties that bind this whole family to that house. LAre there no practical steps you could take to reduce the bills? Speak to Help the Aged about grants that may be available, think about zoning the house for heating with radiator thermostats, extra insulation etc, is your FIL claiming appropriate reductions on council tax, are there any debts it'd be cheaper to pay off than pay interest long term? Do NOT go down the equity release route without proper advice!

My DF lost the bulk of his carefully saved pension funds through no fault of his own. We didn't find out til after he died and my DM was left with buttons. I'm the only one in a position to help her financially and I do. And the house she's in is too big ( tho not a 6 bed by any means) but it would kill her to leave . The house is her only real asset and it would have to be sold to use for care fees. I helped her make her will and I'm know that I don't figure in it. Any money will go to my 2 siblings because they need it more than me & frankly I'm okay with that. It's about family and your DH's sounds pretty solid to me.