Help! I don't want to pay FIL's bills!

[Blurp]

The background: DH has 3 siblings who live nearby. MIL died a few years ago, so FIL lives alone in the house DH grew up in. They describe themselves as "very close" and have always gone to FIL's twice a week for dinner (just the siblings and their kids, not partners). When MIL was alive, she cooked; since her death, they take it in turns to cook, so DH cooks once every other week. This costs about £25 each time, so about £50 per month.

FIL has recently retired. He has absolutely no savings (MIL was a HUGE spender and just spent it all), and gets only a state pension. He's realised that he can't afford to pay for all the bills. The house has 6 bedrooms, so it's huge, expensive Council tax, expensive to heat etc.

In my head, the solution is that he needs to move somewhere smaller and more manageable. However, DH & siblings are not in favour of this because then they wouldn't be able to go round all at once, certainly not twice a week.

His brother has suggested that they all chip in each month to cover the bills - about £50 each. So including the cost of cooking once a fortnight, we'd be forking out about £100 a month for this.

We could afford it, but we'd be sacrificing other things. For instance, we'd like to move to a bigger house (the kids would love some outdoor space). But that would be very tight financially if we had this extra money to pay each month. We'd also like to start saving some money for the kids each month too - £25 each would build up to a decent amount.

DH agrees with me in principle, but is being put under pressure by his siblings. He said he'd feel bad continuing to go to dinner twice a week if he wasn't paying his share. But he also doesn't want FIL to have to move, thereby possibly meaning that they can no longer all visit together.

There was a vague suggestion at one stage that if FIL didn't have enough space, they'd all take it in turns to go round each others' houses, so we'd host every other week. This won't work because both me and one of the other siblings partners work from home and it would be too disruptive (and anyway, I don't really want a big crowd of people in the house once a fortnight). Again, I feel like I'm getting in the way of the plans.

Any suggestions? Is it unfair of me to say no to us paying money to FIL each month? Or is it reasonable to expect him to live within his means, even if that means moving house?

If the siblings take on responsibility for keeping him in the house now are they also going to take on responsibility for keeping him there if he needs care?

I'd also love to know how you run a 6 bed house on state pension plus £200pm

Ask your H if he is seriously suggesting that you should all forgo moving to a bigger house suitable for your needs, to facilitate FIL living in a huge house simply so that people can go round twice a week for dinner?

Ask him how the cost of boiler repairs, new windows, re-editing, roof repairs, cleaning, redecorating and so on, is going to work. And in the meantime if it's ok that your family has to trim it's costs to subsidize a man who is only in his 60s!!!

Of course he should downsize. It makes no sense for a single man in his mid 60s to live in a 6 bedroom house which he can't afford and be subsidised by his children to stay in the house meaning that their families can't afford to upsize themselves when they have children and need more space.
DH and his siblings presumably have an emotional attachment to the house and are not thinking clearly. They obviously enjoy each other's company but they can still meet up without the need for a 6 bedroom house. Also, as the cousins get older, they may start to decline these big family parties twice a week!
The grandfather really should suggest downsizing himself given his low income.

Move in with him

Things I would be looking into.

Firstly what are his monthly outgoings? Look back over a year of bills to factor in winter etc. Consider inflation.

Does he have a private pension? In many jobs a pension is mandatory.
Is he behind with the bills?
Could he look at a part time job?
House valuation. Is the house paid off in full?
White goods and heating maintenance.

Tally up that money saved over 30years... for your children/retirement.

The trouble is that making suggestions like downsizing etc it is too easy for them all to say, but We found elders didn't know where to start with something daunting like that.

Can you talk to someone from say Age Concern or similar who might have some advice on how to deal with what must be a very common problem. Your fil needs a proper plan to navigate the next 10-20 years and take care of emergencies and to lessen the burden and worry on him as he gets older and needs to find ways to make it easier to cope and stay independent for as long as possible. This won't be easy but it is doing your FIL a favour and actually it is properly taking care of him instead of them keeping him in place when its not really working for him anymore so they can stick to tradition. Its better for your FIL to make a plan that he feels he owns. He must be stressed coping in that big house without his wife and without the income to do much about it.
What about letting the house and using the income to pay for a smaller place?

The siblings have to be more flexible about the meeting up tradition,

Also remind the siblings that the majority of the country does not live in a 6 bed house and actually manage quite comfortably entertaining their families in smaller houses. Sorry but they sound absolutely entitled.

I've seen so many struggles with older relatives refusing to adapt to changing circumstances, including a great aunt who made herself ill trying to cope in a big falling down house, worrying about thieves and what would happen if she fell. It meant she ended up removing all the choices from her life because it created a crisis where she had no choice. She was bitterly unhappy about it, but in refusing to adapt in anyway had created that situation for herself. Her sister on the other hand made sensible plans, was more or less independent to age 98 and lived to 102. Its not living to struggle along along barely coping, getting stressed and worried about the future, when he could be in a place that's more manageable.

I think you might find that this great reluctance also has some roots in that perhaps these siblings are in some way "protecting their inheritance." sorry but these motives often under lie behaviour which doesn't seem rational, so be prepared. Change will come whether they want it or not.

Finally. This is your life!!! Your time with your young children.
Your Fil has had his time to organise his life and his children's life and now your children and planning for their future comes first.
Not being able to move to a larger place for your growing family to devote time and scarce resources to these weekly sessions.

Whilst its nice to see family etc, this seems really out of balance. Ultimately, one must decide what your own life priorities are and resist emotional blackmail I hope you find a path through this.

A few posters have suggested equity release and I just wanted to pop back on and say it's not an ideal solution, especially for a man in his 60s who may end up wanting to downsize in 20 years or so.

My MIL took it out when she was 65, without telling the rest of the family. There's now a 100k charge on her house. The interest on these things are huge. None of us are particularly fussed about inheritance thankfully, and her house is having to be sold for care home fees, but there was a window 2/3 years ago where we were urging her to move into a retirement flat. I now know the reason she resisted so hard was there wasn't enough equity on her house to make downsizing possible.

Think of it as an investment, as one day your husband will inherit.
A meal out cost £50, if you had too host for a large family, it would be a darn sight more.
Also moving for an older person is stressful, it could kill the dad, and it also sounds like the family are not ready to lose the home yet

Fuck me, he’s in his 60s??!!!
If you start chipping in with his bills now you’re potentially going to have another 30 years of it ahead of you.

The £50 for meals you would have to spend anyway.

Think of it this way. Your DH contributes £50 and gets 8 meals for him and your DC.
If they weren't eating there, they would need feeding at home and it would cost roughly the same so you definitely wouldn't be saving £50.

The bill paying, is a separate matter. I agree that one person doesn't need to have a 6 bedroom property. He could still have a big enough property by downsizing to a 4 bed surely! Especially if it was a bungalow which gave a large space to socialise on ond level.

I wouldn't be too keen to pay the bills if the above solution could be found.

When my DF died my DM said she would have to be carried out of the house feet first but without his pension and big repair bills she decided to downsize to a nearby town.

She’s much happier in a smaller house with nicer neighbours (her old ones were “upset” about the flashing ambulance/police lights disturbing them on the night he died).

The more I think about it, the more I'm starting to believe that DH is vastly underestimating how much he spends on food when he cooks dinner. Even allowing for the fact that he doesn't cook anything grand (for the kids it'll be oven chips and chicken nuggets, for the adults, frozen pizzas), he usually stops at the shop on the way there and "tops up" what he's already bought by buying ice cream, coleslaw, garlic bread etc... I guess that adds an extra £10 or so at least each time. It's still not loads, but it's more than we'd spend at home (our DC are still small and don't eat much!).

@Toddlerteaplease

He can't afford to live there, therefore he has to move. End of. It is not your responsibility to make up for his lack of planning for his retirement.

this - seriously why is this even a question

Downsize - he could always add an extention to a smaller house

Plenty of people in their 60s are working (maybe bitter I won't retire till 68).
But working a part time job in a garden centre or whatever would earn enough to cover the bills.

@mummmy2017 he's in his 60s not his 90s!!

Plus how do you know that OP's H will inherit? There are other siblings, and it's possible that the house will end up being sold for care home fees.

If he’s still in good health and had a decent job, why on earth has he retired, with no savings whatsoever despite paying off the mortgage over a decade ago!

Can you house swap with him?!

If he really won't move, then equity release is an option. But moving would be so much more sensible. I would not want to subsidise him in these circumstances.

My God, no way would I be facilitating this. A man in his 60s,that's no age. I'd be ashamed to be a healthy 60 something and to expect my children to fund me while I languish in a six bedroom house. Bloody hell. Can't he downsize to a nice little cottage or bungalow, he can whack one of those glass box extension rooms on with the leftover cash if he wants to entertain.

This situation is bonkers.

As PPs have said, he needs to downsize. Saying it's not feasible to host 14 people in an average sized house is nonsense.

The alternative is that you or one of the other siblings buys him out (so that the family home can be kept, if that's what they want). They could consider having him living there. It sounds like there's plenty of space.

Hell would freeze over before I would agree to embark on potentially two decades or more of tipping money into a huge house to the detriment of my own family's quality of life. No way. I'm inclined to agree with PPs that either your DH's family haven't really thought this through (blinded by emotion, I'm guessing) or they've got one eye on their inheritance. Inheritance that you will be subsidising personally.

Do you know how your SILs feel about this?

(And the fact that you're never invited over there is just plain weird, sorry).

Has anyone asked the FIL what he would like to do?

Indeed, unless it's a very expensive house, any inheritance is unlikely to be life changing, or realised in the short to medium term. The man is in his mid/late 60s and could easily live another 20-30 years or more.

Then it will need to be split 4 ways, and that's assuming that it's just divided up by the 4 siblings, it could all be left to the donkey sanctuary for all the OP knows.

Plus there's the matter of possible care home fees, inheritance tax and the cost of upkeep to keep the house in a nice well maintained condition, which the FIL cannot afford. If he lives in it as is with little or nothing done during the rest of his life, it will be worth far less as a do-er upper, that needs gutting and possible big jobs doing like roof, windows, rewiring.

Certainly no reason to 'invest' much needed family money in keeping the FIL in this house.

I firmly believe that in this situation, the value of the house and any other assets should be used to make the current occupant as comfortable as possible, including releasing equity either by downsize or a lifetime mortgage, which are not as terrible an idea as they have been in the past, due to better regulation and lower interest rates. Unless there is mutual agreement, it's not desirable to sacrifice the finances and lifestyles of the adult offspring and their families.

Off the wall suggestion. Is there any chance that the house could be divided into two and the unused portion sold off? It would obviously need work, which is likely to need a small mortgage, unless one of the siblings has savings to lend to the project, to separate the house and install extra kitchens and bathrooms, but depending on the layout, plot size and any planning issues, that could be a solution?

OP, unless your DH is financially dependent on you and you are in fact the one paying for this I would say you are very unreasonable. It is not your business to suggest your FIL to move out of his home. It is great you DH's family is close and getting along. It might be very important for FIL to continue these get together meals especially after his wife died.

This is a ridiculous situation. And it needs to be tackled before it becomes an emergency ie before your FiL gets too ill or frail to move and before the siblings run out of money and before the house falls apart.
It is impossible to keep up a 6 bedroom house on no money. So your FiL needs to downsize or take in lodgers. A close relative has tried both. Initially she had lodgers who paid a low rent and basically were her housekeepers. But then she realised that actually she would get too old to cope with the stairs and sensibly downsized. She bought a beautiful two bedroom appartment that is all on one level (no stairs), with a secure porter system, with a massive reception room (Where she has already hosted 20 people). There is a huge shared garden and a lift to her floor. She is much happier and more independent. And she will be able to stay there however old and frail she gets. And she has plenty of cash in the bank now to pay all her bills and go on holiday too.
Your DH and his siblings are doing him no favours by stopping him facing up to his new reality. The longer they delay, the more the house will fall into disrepair and filth.

And I also think the two meals a week with the family (without you) is a bit much, especially as your DC don’t enjoy it. Not sure you said how old your DC are, but trust me, if they don’t enjoy it, they will stop going as soon as they can and will then join you being dumped by Dad twice a week. Sounds a bit like shitty parenting from your DH to me. Give his head a wobble and remind him who his family is!

Posters are talking about this guy like he's a doddery old man - if he's just retired, he's mid 60s. By his age, you will all still be working full time.

He need to go and see a financial advisor and work out how he's going to be able to live relatively comfortably (if frugally) for the next 20 or so years. Chucking in random cash now because none of them can bear to be adults is just deferring the problem to a point where he really could be a doddery old man.

And pressuring your dad to stay in an enormous house because you like going round there for family lunch twice a month is selfish, not kind.

Just you wait, be like this and he will replace his wife, not write a will and she will get everything.