Help! I don't want to pay FIL's bills!

[Blurp]

The background: DH has 3 siblings who live nearby. MIL died a few years ago, so FIL lives alone in the house DH grew up in. They describe themselves as "very close" and have always gone to FIL's twice a week for dinner (just the siblings and their kids, not partners). When MIL was alive, she cooked; since her death, they take it in turns to cook, so DH cooks once every other week. This costs about £25 each time, so about £50 per month.

FIL has recently retired. He has absolutely no savings (MIL was a HUGE spender and just spent it all), and gets only a state pension. He's realised that he can't afford to pay for all the bills. The house has 6 bedrooms, so it's huge, expensive Council tax, expensive to heat etc.

In my head, the solution is that he needs to move somewhere smaller and more manageable. However, DH & siblings are not in favour of this because then they wouldn't be able to go round all at once, certainly not twice a week.

His brother has suggested that they all chip in each month to cover the bills - about £50 each. So including the cost of cooking once a fortnight, we'd be forking out about £100 a month for this.

We could afford it, but we'd be sacrificing other things. For instance, we'd like to move to a bigger house (the kids would love some outdoor space). But that would be very tight financially if we had this extra money to pay each month. We'd also like to start saving some money for the kids each month too - £25 each would build up to a decent amount.

DH agrees with me in principle, but is being put under pressure by his siblings. He said he'd feel bad continuing to go to dinner twice a week if he wasn't paying his share. But he also doesn't want FIL to have to move, thereby possibly meaning that they can no longer all visit together.

There was a vague suggestion at one stage that if FIL didn't have enough space, they'd all take it in turns to go round each others' houses, so we'd host every other week. This won't work because both me and one of the other siblings partners work from home and it would be too disruptive (and anyway, I don't really want a big crowd of people in the house once a fortnight). Again, I feel like I'm getting in the way of the plans.

Any suggestions? Is it unfair of me to say no to us paying money to FIL each month? Or is it reasonable to expect him to live within his means, even if that means moving house?

Have you checked whether fil is eligible for pension credit?
That would reduce his council tax bill and give other perks.

I don't think they're being unreasonable. But I get you feel miffed about the impact on your family. However, unless you're genuinely on the breadline, £50 isn't really a lot if you look at this as being family, rather than focussing on your intentions, needs and wants.
You don't wish to be a part of the solution, such as hosting at your house and only want the solution that has no impact on you.
Yes, he could find a new home, but I imagine the location and size of living area for 14 won't be easy to come by if looking for smaller numbers of rooms. We entertain upto 16 in our home, but it's hard work and realistically, we'd need double the size of reception and dining rooms we have for that on a weekly basis.

@Blurp
It's a shame you don't see the virtues of their family values. I hope they're bestowed upon your children.

@Graphista

Before anyone considers "chipping in" have his finances been thoroughly and properly reviewed to check:

1 he's receiving everything he's entitled to - is he getting pension credits or other income that he should be?

2 his outgoings aren't unnecessarily excessive - is he on the best/cheapest options for:

gas/electric - switch him if necessary many pensioners are paying more than absolutely necessary for this

water (if privatised where you are)

TV/phone/WiFi (if he has - if he doesn't have WiFi you could well find that this is actually meaning his phone costs are higher than necessary, he doesn't need to use it though I am sure the siblings/grandchildren would find it useful) - weirdly these days it's often cheaper to get packages that include more than just have a phone contract

Mobile phone - if he has one is he on the best contract for his usage?

Council tax - has he made sure he's getting the single person discount following wife's passing? People often forget such things

Insurances - if he has contents and buildings ins (I'm assuming yes as he owns) is it the most appropriate and cost effective for him? People very often don't change this from when they bought the place!

Groceries - again is he doing grocery shopping cost effectively? Doesn't necessarily mean he has to cut back or change to brands he doesn't like (though it can be good if possible to get him to try cheaper options and find they're actually ok) but is he shopping in the more expensive supermarkets? If so perhaps persuade him to use cheaper ones, to shop around? How about loyalty cards and vouchers is he making sure he has and uses things like this?

Other shopping - as per groceries is he shopping in higher end/more expensive shops when there's really no need? Is he being savvy and taking advantage of loyalty cards and special offers?

I mention all of the above as we had similar issues (though they weren't living in 6 bed mansions which I have to be honest and say is bloody ridiculous for a single man! Aside from the money it must be exhausting cleaning and maintaining it!) with my grandparents.

They were pretty savvy with the shopping side of things being they were working class and never really had loads of money, but they were inexperienced and unaware of things like the benefits they were entitled to and not claiming and also didn't understand things like energy switching.

One gran once we had persuaded her to LET us review her finances and overhaul it for her was over £2000 a month better off as a result! Mainly due to reducing energy and insurance bills rather than increasing income.

As I said utterly ridiculous and not sustainable for a single man in pensionable years to stay in a 6 bed property purely for the sake of family meals a couple of times a week.

I'm from a slightly larger original family (3 kids) and a HUGE wider family (mums 1 of 6 dad 1 of 5) and my grandparents were in much smaller properties and yet I very fondly remember many Christmas dinners and other occasions at theirs where everyone attended (so all their children, plus spouses/partners, plus the grandchildren) and everyone was fitted in and had a rare old time!

they also all bring their kids, so it's a total of 14 people.

Mums side at the maximum it was 25!! Grandparents, great gran, mum & siblings, partners and spouses and grandchildren and that was in a 2.5 bed tenement flat in glasgow!

Even if he downsized to "only" a 3/4 bed he'd still have PLENTY of room for these occasions.

It's simply a case I think of finding somewhere that may have smaller and fewer bedrooms but the downstairs/living area is open plan/large enough to accommodate.

Have they or you even looked at any other properties in the area?

My parents are in a small 2 bed and the dining table still seats 8 - 10 comfortably. Perhaps they need introducing to the concept of a "kids table" as so many of us accept as normal?

I think they had a look and the houses that were more affordable tended not to have separate dining rooms, and the living rooms wouldn't be big enough for all of them I suspect they didn't look that bloody hard!! Bed they only looked within the immediate vicinity too.

My mum has a brother that is an arse about only living in one particular expensive part of glasgow and absolutely wont consider even a mile outside that, stupid and unnecessary snobbery that means he is in a house that's really too expensive for him and paying higher council tax than strictly necessary too.

Also agree FIL needs to be put in front of a recommended, clever financial advisor before any decisions are made just by siblings. Options will open right up when this is done totally agree!!

I do also agree them all getting together twice a week every week is utterly bonkers! This is not normal!

Most families get together like this only for special occasions - milestone birthdays and anniversaries and Christmas. Which within a large family ends up happening fairly frequently anyway, certainly most months which is more than enough for such meet-ups.

If it's a case of wanting to keep a subtle eye on "dad" to ensure he's coping and not getting too lonely etc then even each sibling taking it in turn each week to go with their WHOLE families inc partner/spouse, as there's 4 of them that still means he gets a weekly visit from someone.

In terms of FIL's wishes, I'm not sure that they've really asked him. I think he's said "the bills are getting a bit much" and the siblings have swung into action so it's entirely possible HE wants to downsize, the house may be starting to prove too much for him cleaning/maintenance wise?

And that's while he's relatively young (as a pensioner) and still in fairly good health.

My parents are now in their 70's and both in pretty poor health and very much regretting not moving to a bungalow years ago as they now really struggle to manage the stairs and bathroom even though they've made a number of adaptations.

He could well be thinking he's going to be facing the same problems.

It's even MORE ridiculous - and unfair - for him to stay in a house he can't cope in because your dh and his siblings are hanging onto sentimentality!

They need to wise up! Seriously!

I'm beginning to think you need a meeting with the other partners/spouses and see what they think too.

Thanks @Graphista that's a really good checklist. I don't know much about his finances, but I don't imagine he's done much in the way of switching suppliers etc. He doesn't have the internet, so I'll suggest to DH that maybe he could sit down with him and go through some options, see if he's on the best tariffs for electric, gas and water.

Also the possibility of claiming some benefits or Council Tax reductions, he probably doesn't know about those. That would be a good starting point.

[quote SoloMummy]@Blurp
It's a shame you don't see the virtues of their family values. I hope they're bestowed upon your children.[/quote]
No, I hope my children inherit real family values, where they don't live in each other's pockets, don't expect other people to bail them out, but are there for each other when it actually matters.

Seems odd that its just FIL DC and DGC but not the spouses of his DCs!
Rather rude, I wouldn't want to contribute for that reason alone ( even if I didnt really want to go/ liked the peace!)
You need to prioritise your own DC and immediate family unit.
It still might be possible to downsize but having a room big enough to have a table that seats 14 is quite a tall order, ultimately if siblings want dad to stay in the family home they will have to contribute but only with their OHs agreement. The potential for falling out over this is huge, would be much simpler for dad to downsize. The upkeep of a house that size will also be substantial so just makes sense for him to get something smaller.

I don't think £100 a month on your own dad in times of need is that much.

I think that's all relative. If the family disposable income is £110 a month then it's a lot of money, if it's 4k, it's not.

And what if your circumstances change? £100 may be affordable now, but god forbid there’s a redundancy? If one sibling can no longer contribute, does everyone else’s contribution increase? What if they all lose their jobs except the OPs husband? Terrifying.

Honestly it’s your DH’s money

Really ? Does anyone actually still think like that ? Surely as a family unit, all money is family money. If a couple have made a decision that one parent saves the family £££ every week by staying at home with them and not earning so much of a wage, that is FAMILY money, not either partner's money.

OP There is no way in a million years I would even consider setting up this payment. In truth, neither would my dh. Though of course, there is no way any half decent parent would accept it either. This isn't some elderly chap who had no chance to contribute to a pension or put some money by. This isn't someone who is sofa surfing or has had some terrible unforeseen (and uninsured against) accident or illness that prevented him earning. It is a man who earned well, chose to spend it all, and yet still has a huge asset from which he can release money - money which he then might not even need particularly as his bills could be so much lower.
Any amount agreed to would be bound to increase.

Whoever said '£100 isn't much' is clearly ignorant of so many people's circumstances. When my dc were little, we simply didn't have that spare, and if we had, it would have been going to think about maybe getting a roomier house for our family, not trying to maintain a huge house for a single person who chose to spend all his money.

Have only read the first few pages, but if an extra £50 per month expenditure would mean moving to a bigger house was "very tight" financially, definitely do yourself a favour and stay put.

I think you sound pretty selfish

I cannot work out why someone would need a 6 bed house in order for one man to have his 4 children for a meal twice a week. Surely there are 2 bed properties that can still fit 5 people around a table?

Sorry forgot the DGC .... my elderly relative has a bungalow with 2 beds, and a massive lounge. Would be easy to have 2 tables that are put up in it with folding chairs twice a week!!

If it takes £100 now when he is in his 60s, will it take £200 in his 70s, to make house adaptations or pay for some care/household help? £300 in his 80s? And the house sold when he is in his 90s.
Possibly!

Whoever said '£100 isn't much' is clearly ignorant of so many people's circumstances. When my dc were little, we simply didn't have that spare, and if we had, it would have been going to think about maybe getting a roomier house for our family, not trying to maintain a huge house for a single person who chose to spend all his money.

EXACTLY

@Bringonspring

I think you sound pretty selfish

I think one man living in a 6 bedroom house that he can't afford is extremely selfish. But that's just me.

“Sorry dc1, no music lessons for you as your Grandad needs the beating on in his 6 bed house more now he is 69” or “sorry no holiday this year, just had to replace a boiler” or “sorry you have no garden to kick a ball around in, as we pay for Grandad’s house and gardener” are the types of conversations that could ensue.

I would be beyond fucked off if my dh went out to dinner twice a week without me and had done all through my marriage.

What a HIGHLY unusual situation.

Is this a weird religious cult?

I think the issue is with DH and his siblings having a romantised view of their huge family home and get togethers. Also maybe moving forward to a more practical solution means confronting their mother's death and life not being the same when she was around? I am only guessing but I was widowed at 38 and had no choice but to cut our cloth and move on to a new normal. Your FIL sounds rather enabled, first by MIL and now his children.

This set up seems really strange and just does not make sense. Are your FIL's children not more concerned for his current and current wellbeing and ability to manage into retirememnt? He is only 65, most people in their 40s today will be expected to work for a good few years past this. He cannot afford his house, he is lucky to be retired at 65. Loads of people have had to adapt to unexpected life changes including my 75 year old mother when my very fit father died from following the cruelty that is parkinsons. And she has dementia.

It’s great they meet twice a week. The reality is that it’s not £25 per meal as he eats for free three other evenings a fortnight. This means his meal costs £6:25 each night he eats there. Which is fine

Could any of the siblings afford to buy the house and move in, grandpa in situ?

I'm not British but a lot of y'all seem soo cheap and suspicious of ur parents like they're taking advantage of you. OP said he's nice and not toxic so idk what the big deal is. I think they need a long term plan for downsizing but spending 100£ for now, which they seem to have, is not over the top for a parent! If you think 100£ / month will stop you from being able to afford a bigger house, you can't afford a bigger house. You need to make more money, I would focus on that.

2x a week dinners are kinda a lot, and so weird no spouses go, but idk if they are enjoying them I think its a good ritual for kids.

however how is it costing you £25 quid every 2 weeks what are you finding him. Surely you can do batch cooking

I don’t think it’s just feeding ops father in law but the whole family - fil, 3 siblings and their children and ops dh and dc.

I don't think £100 a month on your own dad in times of need is that much.

A lone 60-something man doesn’t NEED a 6 bed house!!

Glad to possibly be of help op.

As I say it was an issue with my grandparents - there was a lot they simply weren’t aware of like council tax discounts etc

Now facing similar with my parents, they’re “comfortably off” but it bothers me that they’re paying more than necessary for some things eg they only trust BT for the home phone! Utterly ridiculous to pay BT’s exorbitant fees! But they feel other companies are unfamiliar to them, my siblings and I keep trying to persuade them to change it’s hard.

Yet I pay £18.99 a month for landline (which I don’t even use!!) and WiFi.

Even on here what people pay for WiFi astounds me - and often I’m seeing their posts because they’re posting about issues of reliability or poor speed!!

I stream constantly and am pretty much constantly on WiFi on my phone too and it’s not even fibre I have and it works fine.

I’d bet good money if someone savvy were to go through his money with a fine toothed comb they’d also probably find he’s paying for various memberships of things he no longer uses too - very common with older people and even we slightly younger folk can be guilty of being complacent about this kind of thing too.

Get him hooked on the money saving expert site! Tons of ideas on there

The max dining space he really needs is 10? There doesn’t need to be enough chairs for all the Dgc too - as I say introduce concept of the “kids table” I was the eldest dgc both sides and we loved having our own table, own discussions and way of relaxing while we ate.

If it takes £100 now when he is in his 60s, will it take £200 in his 70s, to make house adaptations or pay for some care/household help? £300 in his 80s? And the house sold when he is in his 90s.
Possibly! excellent point too

Are they all after the house as an inheritance or something? All sounds ruddy weird.

Why not suggest you all move in with him , two birds and one stone