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How to handle a convo with DH

111 replies

WizenedFilly · 31/07/2020 11:41

Hey guys and girls,
Have posted recently about things between DH and I.
Not to drip feed, we have 4 DC, live in a semi (with a small mortgage) and can just about afford to live. Neither of us have a pension. DH is in his 40's and I am in my 30's
We are heavily reliant on WTC, and both are low earners. DH has his own Limited Company and I work for a supermarket.
DH was offered a job which would pay 4 times his salary. He doesn't want to take it, as he likes being his own boss. I can't go full time as I look after the children before and after my work.
I really want more out of life. I would like to move to a bigger house and not have to worry about what we buy for food etc etc.
How do I have this conversation with him, without causing an argument? I know he is happy with our life and home, he doesn't want a bigger mortgage etc. But I feel like we are at a stalemate. He is happy with life, but I am not.
If I start a convo he will argue that this is the only thing he knows, and that he is content.
Then I thought maybe I should write a letter Confused and explain how I feel and that I would like more out of life. But I am an adult and should be able to have an adult convo with him. Just feel so stuck with it all x

OP posts:
jammyjoey · 31/07/2020 15:02

If you feel more comfortable writing a letter do that, it might be more hard hitting. Say you're unhappy, and the financial pressure is too much. He doesn't have to take the job but its not fair to continue as is.
DH and I disagreed on moving as he was happy' but i wasn't. We are moving but we both compromised on the area, its not fair for one person to continue being unhappy because the other person is happy, he could also be happy in another role/job but you're never going to be happy with the current set up

Soubriquet · 31/07/2020 15:02

So the exact same job, better pay, but it just means he is no longer his own boss

Talk about throwing a babies tantrum

Surely this will be so less stressful not having to worry about getting the hours in, getting the money in, paying the bills at the place etc

He needs to take the new job

pawpawpawpaw · 31/07/2020 15:21

OP is there a reason you're finding it hard to bring this up to him? I'm not fishing for unpleasantness, but if I was in your position and feeling unhappy I'd tell my partner I was unhappy and he'd listen and we'd talk about it.
If you say 'I just have to make more money for my own well-being and future as well and that of my kids, can you help me change things so I can do that?' what do you imagine he'd say?
Will he feel attacked or upset because you're telling him his business is not profitable? Because that sounds like an objective truth whether it comes from you or someone else.
I understand that sometime we have to do things we don't want to do because childcare is expensive and often the lower-paid partner needs to do more so the higher-paid partner can bring in an income that keeps the wheels turning, but that isn't the case here.

Bhbunny · 31/07/2020 15:28

Can your husband not increase his pricing? If he’s great at what he does then he should be paid accordingly. Could you take on some admin stuff in order to allow him more time to grow the business and get the money in? Another option is a virtual assistant to help with general stuff. Sometimes you’ve got to spend some money to make it and hiring help will allow extra time to get more clients in. I know where your husband is coming from it’s incredibly hard to work for someone else when used to working for yourself but he does have a responsibility to ensure that financially you are sound as a unit and not just month to month.

WizenedFilly · 31/07/2020 15:30

He will probably be annoyed. Anytime we talk about financials or his business, he seems to shut off and not want to listen. His argument being that he is happy the way things are and I am not. I also don't think he can see any other way, irrelevant what I say. He is the "head" of the house in that way and always has been. It is partly my fault as I have let him become like this from very early on x

OP posts:
Wallywobbles · 31/07/2020 15:46

Ah so he will shut you down with the you're castrating me argument.

Fuck me you've been tolerant far too long. Find someone male that he respects and get them to lay it out in black and white with you there.

Excel spreadsheet - nothing complicated. Costs and profits = loss.

RandomMess · 31/07/2020 15:54

What is the market like for a mobile mechanic on your area?

Ok more limited in what you can do etc but it's clear his business HAS FAILED

larrygrylls · 31/07/2020 15:57

I think it is very unfair of him to expect you to do child care while he pursues what is. In reality, a hobby. The purpose of a business is to make a reasonable return for the hours put in and, if that is not happening, he needs to bite the bullet and get a job (it won’t suddenly get better after 20 years).

He owes it to you and his family to take a decent job and at least give it a go.

I think that, if you are in a relationship with children, you have to make a contribution, either earning or looking after home/children. If you do neither, it is bound to cause resentment.

I would be very nice and say how you admire how hard he has tried with his business. However, say clearly that now it is time to cut his losses and move on. You may have to become blunter and ask clearly what he is contributing and say that, much as you love him, you cannot stay married to someone who does not have the family’s best interests at heart,

Not easy but, if you don’t do it, resentment will keep on building up.

RandomMess · 31/07/2020 16:06

If the garage has 2 sets of ramps (2 cars can be worked on) he can shut down current business and start a partnership with another mechanic.

Ultimately how many does rent, rates and insurance cost per week plus employing 3 people at say £12 per hour each (plus employer costs) - are there enough billable hours to break even?

Has he ever tried to renegotiate the rent?

I honestly think it's a hobby he job where he absolves himself of all parenting and household tasks whilst doing as he pleases meanwhile you are at breaking point!

pawpawpawpaw · 31/07/2020 16:20

Wiz it's not your fault, you haven't 'let' him be anything, he's an adult who's responsible for himself, but you're also able to say no, this is not the life I want.
He may be annoyed or angry if you withdraw your free labour. But it's unreasonable to expect you to do this forever and not express your frustration and desire for things to change.

averythinline · 31/07/2020 16:41

The head of the household can't support the household the taxpayer is ... he is being very selfish, you should be able to be comfortable..personally if he isn't going to step up .. use childcare for the youngest and go full time..
Maybe divorce first so your not funding his debt ... that's not a business it's a hobby

Tappering · 31/07/2020 18:26

If I told DH I was going to work FT he would argue it is pointless as I will have to find childcare for the children

I always find it fascinating when men who have fathered children seem to think that paying for them, is the sole preserve of the woman. They are his children too, so childcare is a shared cost - exactly like the mortgage, council tax and utility bills are. And it's completely unfair and unrealistic of him to expect you to continue to provide 'drop of a hat' childcare to facilitate his hobby - because let's face it, if it doesn't bring in any money then it's not a job, is it?

He will probably be annoyed. Anytime we talk about financials or his business, he seems to shut off and not want to listen. His argument being that he is happy the way things are and I am not

I'd be giving him two choices; have the conversation and stop behaving like a selfish shit, or walk away and end up divorced. And yes I'm being deadly serious, because with how things are right now, you'd be better off as a single parent.

maxicheddar · 31/07/2020 19:41

God this is shit for you OP Flowers

He needs to face up to reality, however hard that is. He's being so selfish.

The car industry is only getting tougher as nowadays almost every car needs special tools etc.

I wanted to point out too that if he is not paying enough NI to be eligible for a state pension, you need to check whether he would qualify for any state benefits such as ESA in case he ever becomes too ill to work.

If he has not paid enough he wouldn't get any contributory benefits obviously, but he might not even qualify for the means tested benefits as last time I looked, you still need to have paid an amount of NI and of the right sort (I am out of date on current thresholds and exact rules under UC). You really don't want a double whammy of no ability to earn and no income replacement. I guess he has never considered that either.

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/benefits-introduction/problems-with-benefits-and-tax-credits/if-a-problem-with-national-insurance-is-affecting-your-benefits/ this might be a place to start

And also I would take legal advice now as to whether if you up your hours and earning potential and pension payments etc, but then end up divorcing, you might be required to support him financially, because as they see it, you always have. Now that arrangement is fine if both parties are happy or if there is illness etc, but it feels very unfair on you if it happens just because he is stubborn and selfish.

If he is this committed to being an ostrich, its impossible for you to find the magic thing to say now that will make him see sense where he has not before. And you shouldn't have to pander to his fragile ego. I can't see any other way than you assessing your legal situation first and then having a very serious conversation about divorce if he does not agree pull his weight.

Flowers
WizenedFilly · 01/08/2020 09:32

Had a chat with DH
He want us to push the business for one more year. He says that as we have had the children and they have been so young, he hasnt been able to give the business his full attention. He feels in the last month that he has started to make headway and he wants me to help him push it over the next year.

OP posts:
gassylady · 01/08/2020 09:40

Sounds like a delaying tactic/ more head in the sand. Would his friend realistically keep the possible job open for another twelve months? What exactly does he do with the kids that has stopped him pushing the business? What help is required from you? Does he mean you do everything else and his only responsibility is his business? Please say at least that you have life insurance to provide a buffer to the kids if anything happens to either of you. With all the effects of COVID and the potential for further lockdowns it would seem crazy for him to try and push things at this time

Tappering · 01/08/2020 09:41

Right, and what's the plan for when it doesn't work? What does success look like - as in a tangible numerical figure which provides a meaningful income?

This sounds like he's kicking the can down the road. Unless you set out specific and measurable targets, 12 months will roll round and he'll fob you off again, and again, and again.

Tappering · 01/08/2020 09:42

And I'm betting he's not answered the question about why you have to continue to make sacrifices just so that he can continue with his hobby - because it's not a business.

allinadaystwerk · 01/08/2020 09:48

If you are going to help him you need to know exactly what those overheads are! To walk away with £4 from 60 is just not feasible. When you know all the outgoings you can then streamline them by stepping in maybe you answer phones and take enquiries when you can. He needs to be free to go out and earn the 60 per hour. If you can get you head around income and outgoings profit and loss you can re-assess what needs to stay and what needs to change to make better margins. If he is highly skilled and offers a service that is wanted or needed you could be able to turn it around with fresh eyes and teamwork. Would he be willing to make changes?

RandomMess · 01/08/2020 10:08

Arggghhhhhhhhhhhh

Do you have full access to all the paperwork/finances?

What debt does he have and to whom?

Does it have 2 sets of ramps - if it does then he needs to have 2 cars being worked on by 2 mechanics!!! Rent and rates will be his biggest cost...

BarbaraofSeville · 01/08/2020 10:09

Sounds like the fixed costs are too high to make the business sufficiently profitable for the amount of work he does and that's probably never going to change because he can't do any more work.

Unless he can employ another trained mechanic, but that's a risk as that's another salary to cover. £60 ph sounds typical for a small independent mechanic so probably can't charge more.

Can he negotiate cheaper rent? Could he move to cheaper premises? Find a cheaper parts and consumables supplier? If he cut £10k pa off his rent that's £10k straight in his pocket, although you'd probably be entitled to less in WTC.

summerdays · 01/08/2020 10:31

Perhaps your DH is afraid of change and finds it difficult to let go? Sounds he is holding on to something that doesn't make sense financially? He might be in denial and not see that it is not viable anymore. Perhaps he is emotionally attached to this business and feels he can't let the previous owner down in a way? Maybe he doesn't want to be around other people and enjoys working in solitude?

Understanding what is keeping him in this failing business might be a way to working toward a solution and a way out.

And perhaps he could access therapy to work out what's important for him and why, while understanding that compromise is essential, because he's got family.

I would be asking what is keeping him in this business and why and deal with this. Then move towards possible solutions.

WizenedFilly · 01/08/2020 10:33

Sounds like a delaying tactic/ more head in the sand. Would his friend realistically keep the possible job open for another twelve months? What exactly does he do with the kids that has stopped him pushing the business? What help is required from you? Does he mean you do everything else and his only responsibility is his business? Please say at least that you have life insurance to provide a buffer to the kids if anything happens to either of you. With all the effects of COVID and the potential for further lockdowns it would seem crazy for him to try and push things at this time

I don't know if the job would still be available on a year. This is my concern.
We have both been exhausted, but that is normal with young children. He mentioned our youngest, as I wanted another and he didn't, this is why he thinks he is now making headway. Also every time we had another baby my MH nosedived, he had to help more.
I think he wants me to work reception, with phone calls and stuff and do the paperwork.

*Right, and what's the plan for when it doesn't work? What does success look like - as in a tangible numerical figure which provides a meaningful income?

This sounds like he's kicking the can down the road. Unless you set out specific and measurable targets, 12 months will roll round and he'll fob you off again, and again, and again.*
I agree. We don't have a plan. I am wondering if I tell him to up his wage to match the job offer and see where we stand in 6 months?

If you are going to help him you need to know exactly what those overheads are! To walk away with £4 from 60 is just not feasible. When you know all the outgoings you can then streamline them by stepping in maybe you answer phones and take enquiries when you can. He needs to be free to go out and earn the 60 per hour. If you can get you head around income and outgoings profit and loss you can re-assess what needs to stay and what needs to change to make better margins. If he is highly skilled and offers a service that is wanted or needed you could be able to turn it around with fresh eyes and teamwork. Would he be willing to make changes?

I already deal with all of the accounts side of things. He has just bought a new machine which allows him to work on a car and the machine works in the background, so doesn't need his input as such. This of course will generate more income. But looking at his accounts there isn't a lot that can be changed. I am trying to do his accounts as well as work which is proving difficult

Arggghhhhhhhhhhhh

Do you have full access to all the paperwork/finances?

What debt does he have and to whom?

Does it have 2 sets of ramps - if it does then he needs to have 2 cars being worked on by 2 mechanics!!! Rent and rates will be his biggest cost...*
Yes I have full access as I do all of his accounts. He has a loan with the bank (under 10k) and an overdraft on business account (10k) obviously he also has suppliers debts but these are paid every month.
He does have 2 sets of ramps, but one is only accessible when the other is not being used or has a car that is up in the air, as the workshop only has one entrance.
We can't afford to have another mechanic.

*Sounds like the fixed costs are too high to make the business sufficiently profitable for the amount of work he does and that's probably never going to change because he can't do any more work.

Unless he can employ another trained mechanic, but that's a risk as that's another salary to cover. £60 ph sounds typical for a small independent mechanic so probably can't charge more.

Can he negotiate cheaper rent? Could he move to cheaper premises? Find a cheaper parts and consumables supplier? If he cut £10k pa off his rent that's £10k straight in his pocket, although you'd probably be entitled to less in WTC.*
Rent is actually minimal for where we are, and nothing close would be as cheap! Parts he uses a well known "universal" parts supplier, so already has that.

OP posts:
WizenedFilly · 01/08/2020 10:36

He also said that I have sprung this on him. Like a slap in the face after the amount of hours he has put in. I explained this wasn't the case and that I wanted us to be safe and secure in the next five years. I think he wants me to give my job up and work for him front of house. I enjoy my job and like the fact that I am bringing a wage home, so not sure how we would get around that. I also don't thing it is the wisest thing to work together and be married. I love him of course but I do enjoy my time away from him and the children x

OP posts:
RandomMess · 01/08/2020 11:28

What would happen if he wound up the LTd company and reset up as a sole trader?

That would wipe out servicing his debts. Would it then be more profitable?

If you both worked self employed perhaps you part time and keep your other job would it be sustainable?

BarbaraofSeville · 01/08/2020 11:38

Has he worked out how many chargeable hours a year he needs to do to cover his fixed costs plus pay a decent wage and how far he is from that level? So whether or not the business is ever going to pay?

Is he currently answering the phone himself and does this slow him down a lot? Could he have an answerphone and/or encourage customers to message him on social media or text so he can call/message back later?

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