When to start taking a step back. Teenagers.

[Paranoidmarvin]

Those of you with older teenagers. When did you start to take a step back. Letting them deal with their own lives etc.

My husband and I have very different opinions on this. He babies him still. Makes him food and chases him up for stuff. Where I’m more of the opinion that he should be having his own life at the age of nearly 17.

When he goes out. I know where he is going. But I kind of let him make all the arrangements and I am of the opinion that he would let me know if he needs a lift etc. And I just say have a nice time.
My husband will be checking what he is doing the whole who what where.

Please bare in mind he is very sensible and I mean very sensible.

I don’t remember my parents being involved much in my day to day life when I started college. They definitely didn’t chase me up in college work or if I was coming home straight from college. And I don’t plan on doing that when he starts in September. But my husband says we should stay on top of his work. In my eyes he is 17 he needs to be doing this himself. If he wants to go out after college that’s fine .... have a nice time and let me know if u need picking up ( we live in the middle of nowhere. )

Sorry. I’m rambling now. But wanted to know what approach you take with your older teens. How much do you get involved with their Lives loves and goings on.

@CherryPavlova that’s helpful. Thanks.

He isn't being babied at 16 by having food made for him though. Mumsnet is full of 'they are old enough to do it themselves' thinkers, but realistically, stopping cooking for one member of the household because he is 16 isn't really normal. I mean he could take on cooking one or two nights a week so it's 'even' if that's what you are bothered about, but to make him cook separately would be odd imo

With regards to driving lessons & buying a car: I suppose it depends on your financial circumstances, & if you're rural there are good reasons for wanting to help out with paying for this.

BUT even if you put up some money there's a lot to be said for them contributing to the cost. Whether that's them getting a job or taking on chores around the house. They seem more appreciative if they've had to work for it.

Eventually, they start buying you the odd coffee too!

[quote Paranoidmarvin]@CherryPavlova that’s helpful. Thanks.[/quote]
Doubtless you’ll get plenty of the ‘I was running my own company in Senegal at sixteen’ but that’s not the norm and expectations that insist on total independence from about fourteen aren’t necessarily doing them favours.
We had a few teenage foster children too and had to take them back towards dependency before they could have another try at a more successful version of independence. They’d all been cast adrift before they were ready with pretty disastrous consequences.
Our own were probably supported/controlled/pampered a bit longer than some, but are all very competent, well adjusted adults earning well, in long term relationships and running their own homes (apart from youngest who has just left university). She’s competent but hasn’t got her own home yet).

DS is 16 and about to (hopefully!) start 6th form in September.

He has always been very independent but cautious, as parents this is really the dream combination I think! So at 16 he,

• Is in charge of all school work unless he asks for help
• Has a job (curtailed by Covid but that wasn't his fault) as well as being paid to do jobs for an elderly neighbour
• Is a keen cook and can cook reasonably complex meals, he has just undertaken to cook all week and I have left him to choose the menu and order the ingredients he needs
• Packs independently for trips etc. Since he went to camp without a sleeping bag once he's a lot more diligent about checking the kit list! (Incidentally I fell out with another mum who berated me for not driving out with his sleeping bag)
• Has his child benefit and an allowance, as well as wages. DH and I only buy clothes etc for birthdays and Christmas, the rest (including his books for sixth form and his guitar lessons / exams) he pays for himself.
• Arranges his own social life but relies on us for lifts as we live rurally with no public transport.

He's not perfect by any means, but compared to me at a similar age he's positively blooming

"He isn't being babied at 16 by having food made for him though. Mumsnet is full of 'they are old enough to do it themselves' thinkers, but realistically, stopping cooking for one member of the household because he is 16 isn't really normal. I mean he could take on cooking one or two nights a week so it's 'even' if that's what you are bothered about, but to make him cook separately would be odd imo"

Absolutely agree.

Sometimes they actually need to be spoilt a bit, eg if they're stressed or got exams, or poorly. There's a bit of a balancing act too if they're a bit under the weather but over-egging it because you need them to see that as adults we sometimes have to grit our teeth & get on with it even if we don't feel 100%. They will need to be able to know how to manage minor ailments if they leave home. But if they're struggling we'll step in with the comforts & not worry about them doing chores that don't matter.

We all eat together - I hope that never changes - who cooks has changed, both my teens are able and mostly willing to cook dinner and I'm happy to cook for their friends and have them join us for dinner.
They both look after their rooms, bathrooms, laundry and have done since they started secondary. This does not mean that when needed I neglect to coset them - we all need that from time to time.
But it is hard to watch them fail and not step in - the failing is learning but I just find it so bloody painful to watch - but it is all best done while they are living at home and can seek advice or practical support from us more easily.
Some kids need more scaffolding than others - I have twins, their needs differ, I'd be crazy to make decisions on how I treat my kids based on biological age alone. We have been constantly aware of the need to gradually give more freedom and take on more responsibility, I don't believe in one without the other, but I certainly don't believe in restricting both. Some kids want and are ready for more freedom, and some parents are never ready for their kids to fly the nest. It tough but you don't create a well balanced responsible well adjusted adult by constantly doubting their ability to adult.

One of my DDs is vegetarian, and is a competent cook, so often cooks for herself. The other likes to have things done for her, so I've recently gone on strike as far as always cooking for her is concerned.

Eldest DD had a Saturday job from 16 last summer she worked two jobs and saved enough for a car although we contributed to a slightly better one. I organised the insurance and it goes from my bank account and she pays me monthly.
We have helped with one repair as it was unfortunate. She’ll pay her own car tax and petrol/parking.

She occasionally asks for a bit extra near payday but she’s good at saving.

The others get the odd pay out for a trip out so I see no harm.

She paid most of her lessons although we paid for the test and lesson prior, I also organised the theory test and paid for that.

She’s very independent and I expect her to let me know if she’s late or won’t be home for tea.

We refused to buy ours cars until they were 21. We gave them lessons but knew statistically the risk of teenagers in cars was something we were prepared to support. They weren’t allowed in friends cars until they were at university and encouraged only to travel with those who had driven regularly for over a year. Luckily few had cars at university.

They weren’t allowed jobs during term time either. In sixth form the school didn’t allow it but we’d have not let them anyway. The evidence about the impact on attainment is too compelling. They were encouraged to do work experience, to build CVs and do voluntary work that supported their careers.

@CherryPavlova

We refused to buy ours cars until they were 21. We gave them lessons but knew statistically the risk of teenagers in cars was something we were prepared to support. They weren’t allowed in friends cars until they were at university and encouraged only to travel with those who had driven regularly for over a year. Luckily few had cars at university.

They weren’t allowed jobs during term time either. In sixth form the school didn’t allow it but we’d have not let them anyway. The evidence about the impact on attainment is too compelling. They were encouraged to do work experience, to build CVs and do voluntary work that supported their careers.

I know it's cliched but have you got a link to that compelling evidence in attainment - I do wonder whether exam results are the most important thing for success - knowing quite a few kids who seem very reluctant to enter the world of world after spending so many years in education, there seems to be a crisis in confidence amongst quite a few kids.

Mine entered the world of work just fine. Older ones in well paid, secure employment. Youngest awaiting a start date for grad programme.
No crisis of confidence noted.

High attainment is linked to positive mental health and higher earnings from the outset of their careers. Anecdotally, I don’t know anyone from my children’s highly academic sixth form who isn’t in a well paid job (except the few where there is no expectation that they will work in the traditional sense).

I’m sure exam results aren’t sufficient alone but they offer far more guarantees and opportunities than charisma and a few shifts a week pot washing in a pub.

@CherryPavlova

Mine entered the world of work just fine. Older ones in well paid, secure employment. Youngest awaiting a start date for grad programme. No crisis of confidence noted.

High attainment is linked to positive mental health and higher earnings from the outset of their careers. Anecdotally, I don’t know anyone from my children’s highly academic sixth form who isn’t in a well paid job (except the few where there is no expectation that they will work in the traditional sense).

I’m sure exam results aren’t sufficient alone but they offer far more guarantees and opportunities than charisma and a few shifts a week pot washing in a pub.

Sorry is there any compelling evidence apart from your anecdotal of a very high achieving sixth form?

Yes there is. I’ll have to dig it out. The evidence (from memory) is that child employment reduces educational attainment but was dependent, obviously, on extent of employment. Some groups favour work over education and that has a significant detrimental effect on their lifetime earnings.

That is not to say all children with part time jobs fail miserably but we wanted ours to start adulthood with the very best opportunities for their adulthood. Time enough for work after university.

I think he should definitely take his turn to prepare and cook meals. He should keep his room reasonably (I know, he’s a teen ) clean. In theory, he should also be mature enough to be on top of schoolwork, but speaking from my own experience, sixth formers often aren’t, so I would take a healthy interest in that. Lockdown has been amazing for my DD15; prior to this she barely took any interest in cooking, she’s now preparing healthy meals from scratch. I would definitely encourage him to look for a job, even if they’re in short supply, the act of applying is good practice. Re his exercises, surely he HAS to do those? I think I’d be refusing lifts unless he’d completed them.

@CherryPavlova

Yes there is. I’ll have to dig it out. The evidence (from memory) is that child employment reduces educational attainment but was dependent, obviously, on extent of employment. Some groups favour work over education and that has a significant detrimental effect on their lifetime earnings.

That is not to say all children with part time jobs fail miserably but we wanted ours to start adulthood with the very best opportunities for their adulthood. Time enough for work after university.

I think it really depends - if your child lacks confidence socially doing more exams won’t help with that, a Saturday job can make the world of a difference, it can be quite transformational to work in a customer facing role, dealing with all sorts of people - clearly it also depends on the number of hours a child works but for many I know it has helped them enormously.

Still interested to see the research cherry

I think general independence- being able to make risk assessments for yourself outside of the home, perform ordinary household tasks, to handle money- are essential skills that everybody should get the chance to learn between the ages of 16 and 18.

Whether having a job or not while still at school is a good or a bad thing will depend on the individual. Dd didn't have one (health issues) and it made absolutely no difference to her ability to hold one down later. Others have clearly benefited from it.

I don't think it's the most crucial thing. What is crucial is that you gradually start thinking of themselves as adults- so they can think of themselves as adults.

That doesn't mean you can't perform the kind of tasks adults normally do for each other: if you and your dh cook meals for each other, you can do it for him. You don't have to have 3 separate households in one house- for one thing, it's rather uneconomical.

As he gets older a level of reciprocity is also good- so he can cook for you now and then. Nice way for teens to do some adulting that isn't just "tidy your room".

What we do re food (20yo still living at home) is cook supper for three. Whoever is in eats together, whoever comes in later heats up the leftovers, any leftovers that didn't get eaten can then be reheated for lunch: no waste, no fuss.

Incidentally, I do not consider holding down a well paid job as the most important criterion for successful transition into adulthood. There are other ways of being a good adult.

It’s not a case of more exams it’s about getting the right exams at the right grade. Certain degrees from the best 20 universities will help you have higher lifetime earnings. Not really related to a part time job at 16. Or whether you get dc to prepare a meal. Mine didn’t do much of this but they managed at university and one has a very well paid job. The other is in the arts so not as well paid but in their 20s they are fine. They need guidance and certainly we took the view that better grades trumped work at 16.

It all depends on your kid. Getting a job at 16 can make a huge difference to how they feel about themselves. They do not all want to go to a prestigious university, some are more organised than others, some have lots of extra-curricular activities and sports, so won't have spare time they will not all be high flyers and need really high grades but I believe those who lack confidence, especially those who are socially anxious can really benefit from a part time customer facing job - just in themselves. Even my high flying dh - took a year out before he went to Cambridge to work and gain a bit of social confidence and travel with the fruits of his labour. It can help them become more confident, happy adults - but if they are confident and sorted already - maybe it's not needed as much.

We actively encouraged our son to get a Saturday/holiday job - washing up in a cafe, lifeguard, supermarket. He saved for a car and like others on here we contributed (we helped with the insurance). This has positively contributed to his independence. He isn't a 'super selective' sixth form boy (standard FE college) so this was never discouraged by school. It has been good for him and I would recommend the job more than anything (a real lifesaver during covid as it gives him purpose). We still eat together (most nights), and his washing goes in the family wash. You see 17/18 yrs as 'being an adult' so often on MN - still very young in lots of ways - it is a careful balance.

Not wishing to derail the thread but, as a university lecturer I would suggest that having the experience of a part-time job is extremely beneficial for the majority of teens...

Caveat being that I am talking about a few hours a week, sensible hours, sensible times etc.

This has been interesting reading. Will show the thread to my husband. Please keep them coming.