How to help DH understand what is involved in parenting?

[Blackberry654]

DH and I are both mid thirties, and considering whether to start TTC. We have nieces and nephews who we both adore and many of our friends have young children.

DH is more keen on kids than me, but has a romanticised view of what parenting would be like based on the lovely (short) times we have with our niblings. He shuts down whenever I try and talk about logistics of how we'd share out responsibilities and says we'd just figure it out. He says I'm being negative when I remind him of how hard it'll be and that his life will change.

How can I get him to understand what a massive deal becoming a parent is? I feel like I have a grasp of it from talking to friends and reading Mumsnet, but it's like he's burying his head in the sand.

borrow some young kids full-time for a weekend. That should do the trick.

I looked after a baby for 24 hours. Confirmed what I suspected, it's really hard and really tedious if you aren't totally on board.

I actually agree with him. You will just figure it out (unless you have some kind of major logistic challenges like night shifts etc to manage).

I also think that Mumsnet isn’t the place to get realistic expectations of parenting. It’s where people post their problems, you aren’t going to get people posting much about the general day to day or the good times.

You cannot know. You’ve read it, you think you have got an idea, but you haven’t. Until you’ve done it you don’t know. And there are so many variables. Your baby sleeps through the night from 8 weeks, will nap anywhere, breastfeeds like a dream? A doddle. Reflux? Disabilities? Doesn’t sleep? A different kettle of fish.

Your DH is right, you do just figure it out. The danger isn’t that he won’t know what’s hit him, it’s that you think you’ve got a massive grasp on it and YOU won’t know what’s hit you.

You cannot ever know until your in it.

The hardest part of parenting is the relentlessness of it, borrowing someone else’s baby for a weekend is pointless as there is an endpoint. Knowing your next lie in is potentially years away is very different.

You figure it out, learn on the job but as long as your both willing to put the work in it’s so worth it. No amount of talking, babysitting, reading books or anything can really prepare you - as PP said every baby is also different. You can’t plan out who is doing what jobs etc, with a young baby every day is all hands on deck.

If your not really that keen then really think about it, you almost have to go into it with a positive viewpoint. If your already not convinces then it’s maybe not for you which is okay! It’s bloody hard work but being a mum is the best thing for me, if it’s not that important to you maybe nieces/nephews are enough?

I would say if he’s totally on board and keen then yes you’ll figure it out. The problems come when you have to beg someone to agree to a baby and they resent the child.

As long as he’s on board with 50/50 sharing responsibility when you’re both off work then you’ll work out the nitty gritty from there.

We used to work it with me going to bed early and husband doing baby until midnight. Then I’d do all night feeds but husband took over from 6/7am onwards for me to sleep until 8am when he left for work.

But the next baby we had we switched to alternative feeds. So I did one, he did one. It’s just whatever works at the time.

Boring a baby may help slightly but it’s not the day to day that is that tough. It’s the relentless grind of it being YEARS not just a weekend.

We had 3 tho so it can’t be that bad just go for it.

In one way, yes, you do figure things out as you go along as you have no idea what kind of baby you will get.

But on the other hand there are some big decisions to be made beforehand like length of maternity leave, childcare arrangements, changing working hours, how to cover loss of income, housing if you live in a small house or flat now.

At least these need to be discussed before pregnancy.

Go on holiday with someone with kids, in a caravan, for 2 weeks. That's what we did to see whether we wanted kids or not. We thought 2 weeks would give us a good idea. It took us 2 days to both (luckily) decide that it wasn't for us. We enjoy being auntie and uncle so have the best of both worlds and get to give them back. Stopped us from making a big mistake.

I certainly didn’t sit down and divvy up the chore list before ttc.

DH and I made it up as we went along and we managed. This level of pre planning reminds me of those people who think they are expert parents, until they become parents, (my DC will not watch tv until they are 10, only eat organic food and play with mentally stimulating wooden toys).

As long as your DH is not an arse you will muddle through.

I agree with him. You can plan as much as you want, and life will play you a blinder on something.

So long as the subtext isn’t ‘I’m not interested because all the shitwork will be left to you my then leave him to it.

Do you suppose he thinks you’ll be doing 98% of the parenting and is avoiding talking about it to ensure that you become the default parent?

How does he think you'll 'figure it out"? Does that mean he won't bother to do anything and when a baby arrives it'll all be left to you because he 'doesn't know what to do'?

@Loveinatimeofcovid

Do you suppose he thinks you’ll be doing 98% of the parenting and is avoiding talking about it to ensure that you become the default parent?

This - OP correct me if im wrong but I dont think you were really referring to you know, what time they go to bed or what nappy brand works best for you - more conversations like 'I am not going to be default parent, we are a 50/50 partnership and that means you might need to have the same conversations with your employer about flexible working that I do, how do we want to figure out childcare do we save and get full wraparound, or does one/both of us change our hours, do you understand you will need to take days off from work if the kid gets sick so it doesnt fall on me, do you understand that you dont get to spend all day Saturday at the pub by default any more etc etc etc'

@SlatternIsMyMiddleName We didn't agree everything but we did talk through plans for shared parental leave, childcare options, the cost and logistics, changes to working hours (we both do 4 day weeks) etc.

I personally think "oh it will work itself out " is a bit immature

See I think you've slightly got it the wrong way around.

Basically, he will be the kind of parent he will be. You can't really change people.

Your concern should be whether he'll be a good parent but just as importantly, will he be a good co-parent.

To find that out, you just need to look at the kind of person he is now.

Fair?
Kind?
Responsible?
Will compromise?

Right now, in your relationship, do you:

Share domestic tasks equally?
Have financial fairness?
Get equal amounts of free time/time with friends without him taking the piss with his time and/or sulking when it's your time?
Does he respect you and you feel he's your friend?

Then all should be well.

On the other hand, if you find yourself being the one running round putting a wash on after getting back later than him because you did the supermarket shop on the way back from work and when you came in, the dishes were still in the sink from this morning and he was on the playstation..

... then don't even think about 'educating' him about how hard kids are. Simply don't breed with him, because he won't change and you'll end up having child-rearing simply added to your task list.

I think this is a potential red flag that you won't know until it's too late 🤔

Is he generally quite relaxed and “it will work out/be fine” with aspects of life? My partner is and is always reassuring me that things will work out fine (I can be quite anxious). To be honest I’ve got a 9 month old and things have just worked out without too much planning. It’s also always changing as she grows and her needs change. Unless you have particular issues to work out like finances or difficult work schedules then I don’t think you can really plan much beyond basics.

I agree with Fizzy but it appears that some men do do a complete 'volte face' once children arrive...

He's already dismissing and minimising your concerns shutting you down when you try to talk about things, that could be read as controlling, as wanting you to defer to him...

@Pregnantandredundant

I actually agree with him. You will just figure it out (unless you have some kind of major logistic challenges like night shifts etc to manage).

I also think that Mumsnet isn’t the place to get realistic expectations of parenting. It’s where people post their problems, you aren’t going to get people posting much about the general day to day or the good times.

I really disagree. Not talking about it first is how women end up discovering after they have a baby that their partner thinks that working in paid employment absolves them from doing any night time parenting, that they wouldn't dream of changing working hours for nursery runs because they're too big and important (but the woman can do it, of course), that they will still be going out on a bender every weekend, etc. I think it's really important to talk about it, and not just in a vague 'of course we'll split it all 50-50 darling' way

I think 'just figuring it out' is ok if you want to do the societal norm, which is woman takes all parental leave then all career hits, man is considered a good father if he plays with them occasionally. If you want a bit more than that for yourself then it would be madness not to discuss that first.

Thanks for all the replies everyone.

I'm under absolutely no illusions that even though I've tried to educate myself as much as possible, the reality of parenthood will probably be even harder than I can imagine, and probably totally different to what I think it'll be too.

And I know you can't plan everything, but important things like maternity leave, childcare etc (@TDMN you hit the nail on the head) he just won't discuss, which does worry me. He's not a shit, and I have no doubt that if and when the time comes, he would pull his weight, but I just don't think he understands quite how much his life will probably change.

Be careful OP.

I you can't have discussions around parental leave and childcare then you can't plan a baby. Simple as. You need to be able to discuss these issues plus finances and domestic workload.

Simply tell him that if he refuses to talk then you can't have children. It's up to him.

Does it matter right now?

He's right; you begin to figure it out when you get home from the hospital at 4pm on a Sunday, realise you've nothing in for tea, have to put a washing on so you've got clean jammies, and there's a screaming baby you don't know how to handle too.

I agree refusal to discuss this is not a good sign.

Is he generally resistant to planning? Does he have a mental self image of a freewheeling open to experiences person and that planning stuff takes the joy out of it? Does he say 'oh the washing up/Hoover/laundry can wait' a lot?

Because that's the best way I can think of to lose your couple-social life with a baby/young child. And an excellent way of making YOU default parent whether you want to be or not.