How to help DH understand what is involved in parenting?

[Blackberry654]

DH and I are both mid thirties, and considering whether to start TTC. We have nieces and nephews who we both adore and many of our friends have young children.

DH is more keen on kids than me, but has a romanticised view of what parenting would be like based on the lovely (short) times we have with our niblings. He shuts down whenever I try and talk about logistics of how we'd share out responsibilities and says we'd just figure it out. He says I'm being negative when I remind him of how hard it'll be and that his life will change.

How can I get him to understand what a massive deal becoming a parent is? I feel like I have a grasp of it from talking to friends and reading Mumsnet, but it's like he's burying his head in the sand.

but important things like maternity leave, childcare etc (@TDMN you hit the nail on the head) he just won't discuss, which does worry me

Oh right. No, that's completely different. If he won't have a mature discussion on how you'll organise your joint work/childcare regime, responsibilities etc then you just say no. It's a huge red flag - he's expecting YOU to have to worry about the changes.

Be blunt as fuck with him.

'Sorry but I'm beginning to think we shouldn't have children if you won't discuss how we'll organise the work/childcare regime. Seems to me you think that all that will be my responsibility. When you can grow up and start having these conversations, we can discuss TTC again.'

But - you know it's a bad sign anyway, don't you? He will end up grudgingly discussing it all ... and then revert to lazy disney dad the second you give birth.

@FizzyGreenWater

but important things like maternity leave, childcare etc (@TDMN you hit the nail on the head) he just won't discuss, which does worry me

Oh right. No, that's completely different. If he won't have a mature discussion on how you'll organise your joint work/childcare regime, responsibilities etc then you just say no. It's a huge red flag - he's expecting YOU to have to worry about the changes.

Be blunt as fuck with him.

'Sorry but I'm beginning to think we shouldn't have children if you won't discuss how we'll organise the work/childcare regime. Seems to me you think that all that will be my responsibility. When you can grow up and start having these conversations, we can discuss TTC again.'

But - you know it's a bad sign anyway, don't you? He will end up grudgingly discussing it all ... and then revert to lazy disney dad the second you give birth.

This, with knobs on (been there etc etc).

And f you decide ultimately that it's a 'no-no', for God's sake do a belt and braces job on contraception.

He does do his fair share. But it's the 'mental load' which I carry and which I think would increase even more with kids. That's the bit he just doesn't get.

Yep, mental load's the killer. You'll end up hating him and he'll be saying "she should have said something".

I agree with looking after some of your friends/family children for a whole weekend. obviously it’s not the same but It will give a more realistic idea of what it’s like to have a child than just being around friends with kids. In fact maybe he should look after some kids alone for a while day....without you. I know when my brother looked after mine he cane away saying “god they just always want something don’t they”.

I agree he needs to make some commitment to what he will do if you have a child. For example with he reduce his working days so the child has less time in childcare? Will he be waking up with the baby in the night half the time even if he has work the next day!??? This are all things I never thought to ask but have been an issue in my relationship.

If he can't be arsed discussing maternity leave, childcare etc I wouldn't be having kids with him. What would you do if you get pregnant and he tells you that you better start saving your maternity leave as he expects you to still contribute half towards everything or that he won't be wanting to pay childcare fees if you insist on working . these are important discussions to be had

How about couples counseling? Be specific, this is what would give you sufficient confidence to have a kid with him. Include all the practicalities, and make a point of discussing e.g. hobbies - does he have any right now? Would he expect to be able to take off for the weekend without checking with you? Does he HAVE to go on a 5 hour bike ride every Saturday and play football every Sunday? Would his family expect you to take a baby round every week? These are the things that can break you.

Please don't go down the "We'll figure it all out route"...it is really important to discuss practical things now, before you're in the thick of it - I wish I'd done this. For example, do either of you wish to stay home to care for the child? If so, who, and for how long? What are your expectations of each other in regards to parenting / household / financial responsibilities? Think of the main potential areas of conflict and discuss them now. How will you manage differing points of view later if you can't even have a discussion now about how you both view parenthood and life with a child?

I - stupidly - made an assumption that the partner I thought was a thoroughly modern man, would parent 50/50 with me. He assumed I would suddenly wish to become an old-fashioned house-wife, trapped with full child care and house responsibilities for at least 16 years. (He also had a habit of not engaging in anything he was remotely uncomfortable with, which meant long periods of him completely ignoring me whenever he didn't like what I suggested / asked for / wanted to talk about.) If we had talked in more detail in the early days, instead of both making assumptions, we would have made different life decisions...

What the heck is a nibling?

I agree with @Hardbackwriter, 'we will just figure it out' seems to translate to 'I'm sure you will do all the work while the effect on my life will be minimal'.

Lovely word mydog - proposed as the niecephew equivalent of sibling in the 70s think

Pedants Corner alert

Although niblings is a lovely word your nieces and nephews are not your niblings; they are niblings to each other!! (Like brothers and sisters are siblings). Beautiful word though x

No no no. Having children with a man who won’t discuss the most important division of responsibilities is a sure fire way to end up on this board in five years’ time telling us you’re sick of him. Tell him to shape up or ship out.

I think your dh is right to a greater degree.

Yes, of course parenting can be really hard. I found the baby years and 'young child' years really hard, although not everyone does. However your love for the child makes it completely different from trying to compare it to looking after someone else's child.
Your mind and your body adapt too. I was genuinely concerned that I wouldn't even hear my baby when I was asleep (I can famously sleep thorough any storm) - but you do. I was famous for liking my sleep - particularyly lieins in the morning - but you just cope.
You don't know how you'll be. My dh had never been around babies before, but he was a natural with them all as tiny babies. He was my absolute rock. 'On paper' you'd have thought I would have been the one to take to parenthood like a duck to water, but I really struggled.

All the planning and 'divvying up jobs' in the world won't prepare you for the love you feel for that little one, and it won't change how well you do or don't cope as a parent and it won't change the personality of your baby.

I don't think you can really know what parenting is like until you do it and you can't plan for every eventuality but you can talk about the really important stuff.

I know several women who had children with nice, kind men who were attentive and did the dishes and all that but it went to shit when they had kids. One couple are divorced, some really should be and the rest found a balance eventually.

What are his expectations around finances, maternity leave, childcare etc Does he see that these are shared responsibilities and decisions. If you feel like you're carrying the mental load now you just wait until you're sorting appointments, childcare, holiday cover etc etc

Do you have shared values about key issues like smacking. Do you agree about education (state, private, grammar).

As I said you can't plan now but you can have a conversation about them. I'm not sure I'd want to co-parent with someone who can't be arsed to do that.

@mallrat that's the problem - he won't have a conversation about any of that kind of stuff. He just says how lovely it'll be, which may be true, and I realise that there's only so far you can prepare, but I'd still like to talk about it.

@Blackberry654 tricky. As I said, I wouldn't want to take that risk after watching good friends have a miserable time because deadbeat or Disney dads.

@JovialNickname

Pedants Corner alert

Although niblings is a lovely word your nieces and nephews are not your niblings; they are niblings to each other!! (Like brothers and sisters are siblings). Beautiful word though x

Incorrect - you're thinking of the word "cousin". Nibling is the gender neutral term for niece or nephew. www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/words-were-watching-nibling

I just don't think he understands quite how much his life will probably change.

No-one does, op! And while you are focused on how hard it's likely to be, you're losing sight of the joyful things about being a parent.

Op

You said he seems more keen than you ? Or words to that effect
Do you really want kids, or are you ambivalent

Because if you are and he doesn't do his share, than that's going to be a problem, if one of you wanted it more than the other. If the ambivalent one cops all the work, than that's a huge issue .

Op

You said he seems more keen than you ? Or words to that effect
Do you really want kids, or are you ambivalent

Because if you are and he doesn't do his share, than that's going to be a problem, if one of you wanted it more than the other. If the ambivalent one cops all the work, than that's a huge issue .

I don't think 'borrowing' a child will help at all, by the way - the issue isn't whether he'll find having a child boring or whatever, it's how you sort out the practical, long-term stuff like childcare, work, finances, etc. Taking someone else's child to the zoo for the day won't help with any of that.

@LivingDeadGirlUK

I agree with *@Hardbackwriter*, 'we will just figure it out' seems to translate to 'I'm sure you will do all the work while the effect on my life will be minimal'.

I agree with this.

Try writing down all the responsibilities and strategic decisions that need to be made (not the little tactical stuff) and see if he will even go through the list with you

Maternity leave/Paternity leave
Paying for Child Care
SAHP/2 full time salaries
Part time work, one career taking a back seat for 5 years
Who picks up baby from child care when baby is sick
Night feeds
Organizing visiting/keeping in touch with grandparents

Etc etc

So OP, what does he say when you say "so if we have a baby, what sort of childcare would you be in favour of"? You say he won't talk about it - does he literally refuse to answer your question?

If so then yes, that's a really bad sign!

Get him to read this thread - where a MNer who has her own children, so is not inexperienced, babysits her friend’s three year old for the weekend.

It is a hilariously funny thread, but also shows the reality of parenting a toddler.