How to help DH understand what is involved in parenting?

[Blackberry654]

DH and I are both mid thirties, and considering whether to start TTC. We have nieces and nephews who we both adore and many of our friends have young children.

DH is more keen on kids than me, but has a romanticised view of what parenting would be like based on the lovely (short) times we have with our niblings. He shuts down whenever I try and talk about logistics of how we'd share out responsibilities and says we'd just figure it out. He says I'm being negative when I remind him of how hard it'll be and that his life will change.

How can I get him to understand what a massive deal becoming a parent is? I feel like I have a grasp of it from talking to friends and reading Mumsnet, but it's like he's burying his head in the sand.

To add to list of discussion points:

• mat leave - how long? Shared parental leave? What works best?
• childcare. Who what when were how? Pick ups and drop offs? Cost? It's not your job to organise all this and pay for it. He can help with logistics and it's a shared expense.
• sleep. This was a biggie for me. I told dh that there was no way in hell I was going to struggle with a baby for 8 hours alone every night while he got his beauty sleep in another room because he had work. Last time I checked, pushing a baby out of your vagina doesn't magically make you able to survive on no sleep and sitting around in an office all day drinking coffee surely requires less sleep than caring for a baby 24/7, not more. To his credit, he fully took it on board and always helped. Which was just as bloody well because ds1 was allergic to sleep. Dh also always made sure I had a nap/downtime as soon as he got in from work and he also gave me both weekend lie ins (I'd have been happy with just one but he insisted).

You do need to talk about it. Much better to have some idea of what you both want/think/envisage than trying to hash it out when the baby arrives.

Thanks everyone, given me a lot to think about

How is he at the moment? Do you share chores, carry equal responsibility for running the house including all the boring admin bits? Do you both have equal spare time and equal spare cash? Because if you’re not starting from a place of 50/50, having a baby won’t improve that any at all.

It’s easy to talk the talk (and he isn’t even doing that) but if you’re already carrying the bulk of keeping the house, it doesn’t matter what he says, you’ll be carrying the bulk of keeping baby too.

I'd say that until he gets, completely and utterly and unquestionably, that you are jointly responsible, both on duty, and he is not 'helping you with the baby'; he is pulling his weight as co-creator of said baby - just don't go there.

DH did get it. 50% of all the shit, boring, tired stuff, figuring out what needed to be done and doing it... And it was still bloody tough. No way would I have wanted to do that as 'default parent' with someone lending a hand once I'd done the thinking.

You really need to know whether he's willing to sacrifice some earning potential and career progression to have children. If not really, then his expectation will be that you do.
The really helpful thing about this framing is that this is hardly a question one can answer with "I don't know" without it being obvious bullshit.

Kids are hard work, but its also amazing and such a great experience. I am generalising but most of the work does often becomes mums job. And there is a lot, my husband is great and does a lot around the house and with the kids, but he also still lives a normal life. He can make plans, exercise, see friends, have a career without family life impacting it. I struggle to get my hair cut because making an appointment means finding a time my husband is home. Most of my friends are in similar situations, kids do take over your life, and that is ok if it's the life you want. I apologise if saying this is overstepping, but going by what you have said I get the impression you aren't sure if having kids for you. Even if you discuss the split of parenting there is no guarantee that it won't mostly be left to you. Take some time and think about what you want, its ok if you don't want children.

You would be completely mad to contemplate having a child you’re not sure you want anyway with this man.

@snitzelvoncrumb are you ok with that, your husband living his life the same as ever while you pick up all the shit? It’s not clear from your post if you mind or not. It’s just a bit sad to me how breezily you accept the drudgery of being left with everything. I don’t understand why it’s so hard for you to get a haircut yet easy for your husband to do everything he wants. It doesn’t have to be this way you know, and it isn’t for many couples. Do you work as well?

He shuts down whenever I try and talk about logistics of how we'd share out responsibilities

Sounds like he thinks the sorting out is your responsibility.

Id be very surprised if a man who refuses to discuss the logistics of having a baby, would share parental leave, or childcare issues.

Have specific questions ready in relation to your lives now.

Does he have hobbies? Does he expect to continue them in the same way?
Does he work long hours? Does he expect to continue to work them?
How long parental leave would he want to take?
How would he equally share the responsibility of nursery drop offs and pick ups?
What happens when a baby is sick and can’t go to nursery?

Im not saying his answers, or yours, have to be set in concrete, more that theyd give you an indication of his attitude towards parenting.

I agree with @FizzyGreenWater and @UnaOfStormhold

husband is great and does a lot around the house and with the kids, but he also still lives a normal life. He can make plans, exercise, see friends, have a career without family life impacting it. I struggle to get my hair cut because making an appointment means finding a time my husband is home

Fuck no. That is not ok. Your husband is not great if he will not even compromise on his time off from parenting to allow you a bloody hair cut.

I don't really think borrowing other people's children helps much. The thing with your own is that you are in love with them. Other people's you're not. Things that are aggravating and disgusting in other people's children don't hold the same for your own. I have very little patience and kids generally annoy me but my own can do no wrong
It is hard work but worth it

My lovely dh created a spreadsheet of my maternity pay vs outgoings and offered to set up a direct debit to me for the difference.

This is the sort of thing that makes a difference.

Also, I just slept a 3.5 hour stretch for the first time in weeks and texted all my friends in excitement. You shouldn’t do this unless you really know you want to.

I don't work, sorry I think I have made it sound terrible. Dh does a lot, but works long hours. Its difficult to get hair cuts etc as trying to work a time he is home and the hairdresser can do.

I think you've muddied the waters a bit by framing this as a question about 'the realities of parenting' and 'how hard it can be' etc etc.

Yep all that's true, but it's also true that you CAN'T prepare for that.

So by couching it all in those terms, you're giving him an easy answer which lets him deflect from the real issue (and same goes for the many posters on here saying ahh, he's right, you can't know how hard it is until you have a baby!)

This isn't actually what you have an issue with.

You have an issue with being married to a man who is totally up for having a baby but absolutely 100% refusing to discuss how you will split the financial and free time workload when you do.

Which is basically the same as him wearing a massive neon sign which says 'I WANT A BABY BECAUSE IT SOUNDS FUN AND CUTE BECAUSE I DON'T EXPECT TO DO ANY OF THE HARD WORK THAT COMES ALONG WITH IT.'

Yep you bet he's enthusiastic. The two elements fit like hand and glove. He's enthusiastic and sees it in very simple 'we'll work it out!' terms because he absolutely assumes that there will be no hard choices for him to make.

If he was working on the principle that post-baby he'll have to rethink his free time, that he'll have less free cash, that he'll perhaps have to work compressed hours two days a week to do the drop-offs and pick-ups so that you can both juggle work hours... he would be LESS simply enthusiastic because there would be both good and bad to consider.

in his world, there isn't. It's all good man! Because all the bad... will be your problem.

Quite simply, it should be a no. Especially as you're not even sure you want to.

I'd take some of the points made on these posts, condense them into an email even if you think it would get the points over clearer, and use it to explain to him that until he really grows into an adult who understands the concept of the mental load and of how things would change if you became parents, then no, it won't be happening.

And that it also won't be a case of him just saying ahhh, I understand - and discussing mat leave and finances etc... it will also be a case of him changing, now, until this comment:

He does do his fair share. But it's the 'mental load' which I carry and which I think would increase even more with kids. That's the bit he just doesn't get.

• is no longer the case and he DOES get it and also DOES do it.

Maybe that's the first stage OP. Start pulling him up on the mental load. Start dropping the balls. Shopping, cooking, outings... stop being the one to plan, remember what he's forgotten etc.

Ingredients missing for dinner? Didn't you know we were out of tomatoes? But you shopped. It's not my responsibility to do the advance thinking for the shop. You'll have to go now and get some won't you...

All that kind of stuff.

But in a word, god no don't have kids with him until you've put the thumbscrews on here for a good year or more, and see whether he DOES step up or starts getting sulky and resentful when you truly, really ask him to give his 50%

OP is sitting on the fence and her partner is keeping his cards very close to his chest, this is not a situation to give him the benefit of the doubt, instead you should make him bear the cost of the doubt, he agrees to your terms and conditions or it's no dice

don't come down off the fence until he starts being transparent and open about his expectations

Of course he will be aware that time is running out perhaps he thinks that if he just digs his heels in you will eventually relent out of desperation because the clock is ticking?

I am generalising but most of the work does often becomes mums job. And there is a lot, my husband is great and does a lot around the house and with the kids, but he also still lives a normal life.

Wow snitzelvoncrumb
That certainly isn't my experience, nor, as far as I can make out the experience of people I know. If it works for you as a family, then fine, but please don't think that is how it is for everyone.

I mean all you’ll need to do to see the general balance in how many mother/fathers split the load I hang about some schools/ nurseries and see the majority of school runs being done by mums, or go to baby groups and see the majority of people attending being mums or pop to health visits clinic and see the majority of parents there being mums.

Splitting parental load equally can be done but it is no means the default or the norm is our society. That just my opinion!

OP, it's absolutely not ok that the onus is seemingly on you to justify why you don't want children (whether at the moment or ever). It's your body and your life, and you don't have to explain to DH why you don't want to get pregnant and raise a child - the fact you don't want to is enough.

I think you need to turn this back on DH - what plans is he putting in place to make having children workable for both of you? He wants it to happen, so where's his plan?

The fact that the mental load already sits squarely with you in terms of considering raising children and planning for them should tell you everything you need to know.