Why does the UK have so many poor people?

[KenDodd]

Just that really.
Why do you think?

People are buying things they don't need with money they don't have and then wondering why they can't afford the basics when all of their income goes to servicing the debt.
Some people really seem to be devoid of imagination and don't realise that there are millions of working people, here in the very wealthy UK, who can only cover the bare necessities with their earnings, for whom there is nothing whatsoever left over for contingencies, and for whom something like a broken boiler can mean that person must choose between having no heating or hot water or incurring debt. I really can't abide this insinuation that debt is invariably a result of people making the wrong choices/choosing to spend money on non-essentials.

*I have been poor.
Really dirt poor growing up. Spent a fair time sitting in the cold and dark because we couldn’t afford the coal or the electricity. Only one cold tap in the house and an outside bathroom.

No benefits either.

Today I think poor means something else*

I know families who live like this now. Maybe not the outside bathroom, but who have to ration heating, hot water, electricity, gas.

Not suggesting that this poster doesn't realise this, but I think there are people out there who think that when we talk about child poverty, we're talking about kids who can't have an iPhone or don't go abroad for holidays. I know children who don't have enough to eat, can't afford school uniform, have to sit in the dark in winter because their electric ran out.

I recently calculated how much benefit I'd get today compared to when I was a single parent to a young child with SN. Today I would receive £25 a week less and I'd have to pay £10 towards my rent a week and some of my council tax (can't remember the exact figure). But it meant I'd be around £35-40 a week worse off.

That's substantially worse off than I was almost 30 years ago! I really don't know how people survive today.

@InfiniteSheldon

What do you mean by poor? In terms of the whole world we have no one in real poverty. As a country we strive to offer everyone work or failing that benefits. We may not always get it right but we do a pretty awesome job compared to India.

I worked for CAB for a while and frequently saw people fall through the net. One of the ones most upsetting for me was a young man with schizophrenia who had repeated hospitalizations. He was turned down for ESA because he didn't score enough points, he then tried to sign on and was told he was not well enough to be seeking work so denied JSA. He did not have the ability to properly organise his finances and benefits and did not know how the system worked well enough to navigate it. By the time he came in he had been stealing food and was on the brink of eviction. I tried to get an emergency payment from social work (they give out a max of £20) while we sorted out his benefits but was turned down. I have no idea how his life went after that but I don't expect a good outcome.

Now universal credits don't cover even basic housing costs. I helped a young woman who had just become homeless secure a private flat, even a shared room was £100 more than the rent allowance and she would have had a total of £130 a month after that was paid.

real poverty does exist, I've seen street homelessness in my small town for the first time in the past couple of years.

It makes things much more comfortable for us to imagine those families living in poverty in the UK a) aren't really that poor - they can afford cigs and beer - it's just poor budgeting b) irresponsibly had too many kids c) choose to be benefit scrounges d) aren't that bad off anyway - not like the old days, or like in a developing country. It makes us feel better to think it's their own fault.

In reality, huge inequalities in wealth, income and social capital propagate a system where some are held in poverty for generations. Unemployment, erosion of workers rights, minimum wage rates below living wages and systems which penalise the poor trap families in poverty.

Disproportionate wealth distribution due to Capitalism.
The Free Market allows individuals to progress, which is great, however some don't have the opportunities to progress due to such things as being born into poverty, lack of education etc.
Poverty tends to be generational unless by some minor miracle one member manages to break the barriers via the education system, of is ingenious enough to create a business based on a niche product. Even then, I believe that most born into poverty really only stand a chance of elevating to middle class, either via channels stated above or via marriage to a wealthier family.
We hear success stories of celebrities coming from poverty making their way to stardom and therefore great wealth, but this is unlikely to be an option for most.

The U.K. has significant markers around class that link to opportunity, more than other countries.

Over the last ten years we've had a benefit system designed to reduce government spending as the number one priority. Fairness and decency have been thrown out of the window.

Over the past several decades we've had a planning system that's generally hostile to homebuilding, which has resulted in housing whether rented or owned becoming more and more extensive, and has created an entrenched class of homeowners (who are still the majority of households) who will lose out if this is ever corrected.

Those are the main reasons why.

I don't know if the UK is particularly unusual among developed countries, but anyway let's not make this a race to the bottom.

more and more expensive, I mean

As other posters have said poverty is relative. In my opinion, there is an over reliance on benefits and sadly a culture of laziness and blame rather than a striving to better yourself by learning and pushing yourself. Cut your cloth according to your means, don't have children of you can't afford to give them a good standard of life.

In terms of the whole world we have no one in real poverty.
I disagree.

I used to volunteer in a soup kitchen for rough sleepers, I don't see how those people can be described as not living in real poverty.
Also, I know we don't have the poverty of say, Bangladesh, but as others have said, it's not a race to the bottom (or well, it seems it is now). This thread was inspired be the free school meals vouchers in the news. We are a rich country, why do we have families that can't feed their children. I look around at our close European neighbours and feel embarrassed by our poverty.

In terms of the whole world we have no one in real poverty.

Universal creidt before covid in this city meant a rapid and large increase in rough sleepers - some in doorways many more in cheap festival tents.

I don't remember food banks being talked about when growing up or in my early adult years then suddenly seemthey were very common and very needed.

As someone who once lived solely on single parent benefits, I would say the majority is mismanagement of money. There is no doubt that the massive cuts in benefits have lead to many people being much much worse off. And there is massive struggles of course and people on the bread line, but a lot of it is also living in a too big house in an expensive area, having high bills, wanting naice food, cigarettes, alcohol etc.
I could never class myself as poor, even when I was, when I had a roof over my head, clothes on my back, food on my table and running water and electricity. I've seen poverty in other countries, I've seen mothers begging to feed their kids. That's poverty

Also, I think all this striving to better yourself is great, real I do. But we also need supermarket shelf stackers, road sweepers, nursery workers, van drivers etc. They should all be able to feed and house themselves and their children. Nobody should be working full time (or not) and living in such grinding neverending poverty.

Poverty in the US is much worse - those who are poor are in a much worse position than they would be in the U.K.

As an example, the biggest cause of bankruptcy in the USA is unpaid medical bills. We don’t have that issue here.

We also have better benefits.

The poor in the USA are really poor (I have family there who see this first hand).

Ahippo I agree. And fathers leaving their kids without paying for them - which is then picked up by the state - that's not the fault of the older generation is it. I think people used to be more careful with money, they wouldn't have kids they couldn't afford and very often people are spending money on unnecessary things. We are now a nation of consumerists who have to have everything there and then. A generation ago they would sit in boxes and save up for a sofa that's not what we do now. Maybe I don't understand it but UC should pay for your rent food and bills - but people want more than that and then they don't have enough to pay for the basics. I know people who earn virtually nothing yet go in holiday or have a dog or even a horse so benefits can't be that bad if you are careful with your money. And the amount of kids with expensive phones when Dads unemployed and mums a cleaner just amazes me - I can't afford that and I'm in a reasonable salary

How have the elder generations screwed people over?

I’m 56. I grew up in a house with no central heating. My mum was a widow, we had absolutely no money. How is that screwing over the younger generation? Please do tell.

Any ‘screwing over’ was the fault of the government. Not individual elders. Try living under Thatcher for a bit, then talk about screwing over.

Nasty ageist comment

I've seen mothers begging to feed their kids. That's poverty

Is that not comparable to visiting a food bank? Plenty of people borrow money from friends/family to make ends meet or use payday loans.

I think one of the worst things to happen was to pay workers monthly instead of weekly and then to allow them to go into debt.

I feel that there is not one reason but a combination.
Zero hour contracts - How can you budget if you have no idea what your income will be each week. This annoys me so much. Zero hours contracts should only be used for seasonal workers.
Minimum wage as opposed to a living wage - How can you work 40 hours a week and still not have enough to live on.
High housing costs - Government has allowed housing costs to spiral out of control. An affordable home is still not within the reach of many average workers and rents are far too high.
Lack of personal responsibility- I know this will not be a popular view but some people are irresponsible either by taken on unaffordable debts for non essential items, continuing to add to their families without considering the financial implications and the rise in one parent abdicting their financial responsibilities.

We don't have the right conditions for social mobility so for that we would need:

• a reform of the tax system to ensure a good education, a good healthcare system and a good welfare system.

• stronger trade unions and membership being the norm across all industries to negotiate good basic wages.

• low corporation tax and less red tape to encourage start up businesses that are job creators.

We now need political diversity to address these needs as I don't think a party represents the above at the moment.

We shouldn’t be comparing ourselves with African countries or India or the US. We should be comparing ourselves with other Western European countries and when we do, we can see that we have far more poverty and inequality than they do. We need to ask ourselves why this is and what can we do about it?

I'm 50 I grew up very poor, family on benefits in the 80s. I don't think we were anything like as poor and under pressure as a compatible family would be today.
For a start we had a secure home, very small and basic, no central heating etc, but it was secure and affordable, we weren't under permanent threat of being kicked out with a months notice and it didn't cost every penny we had like private renting would today. Council housing is so scarce these days it's a dream for many families. Money was very tight but it was always just enough. Oh, and we had the 'luxury' of a dog. When my parents had a job (low skilled) they knew when they would work and how much they'd be paid.
Zero hours contracts (illegal in many EU countries) and a lack of social housing seems to have really added to the misery of poorer households.

Like others have said, it’s relative poverty but there’s lots of reasons:

Tax breaks for huge companies.
Cycle of poverty- there are now lots of third generation benefit claiming families.
Lack of aspirations.
Wealthier people moving closer to desirable schools, leaving the less desirable schools for poorer children and pockets of wealthier and poorer families so the two don’t mix. Poverty is therefore the norm for some children and they don’t see a way out.
Public sector pay freezes for many years, we finally start getting pay rises and then Covid hits 🙈.
The expectation of 2 parent working families.
High divorce rates.
The drinking/ smoking/ drugs culture.
The sense of entitlement ie. everyone expects to have a newish car, Sky TV, takeaways, iPhones etc
The credit culture: if you can’t afford it right now, borrow it and pay it off monthly.
Lack of investment in manufacturing industries, as we’ve seen recently so much of our GDP comes from the services industry.
People having to work until they’re 68: older workers are desperate to retire and younger people can’t find jobs.
The government making policies which line their own, and their mates’, pockets.

I’m sure there’s plenty more reasons too.