Why does the UK have so many poor people?

[KenDodd]

Just that really.
Why do you think?

People in the UK are not poor. They just have different standards to living. We live in a society of want, not need.

Also: buying DVDs is cheaper than buying a film to stream outside of those available through subscription. DVDs are worth and also cost fuck all, for the most part. Cheaper than four value cans of baked beans.

@dreamingbohemian

There were only about 50 food banks in the UK ten years ago, today there are more than 2,000

By comparison, there are only 1300 McDonalds in the UK

In some respects food banks and charity prop the system up. Things would be a lot worse without them.

@LinemanForTheCounty

Also: buying DVDs is cheaper than buying a film to stream outside of those available through subscription. DVDs are worth and also cost fuck all, for the most part. Cheaper than four value cans of baked beans.

Cheap they might be but they (or videos) weren't a thing 40 years ago. The TV license was peoples only outgoing in terms of watching TV.

Food banks were needed back when I was growing up, I would have had a chance at 3 meals a day then. I'm not saying it's not a disgrace that they are needed, because it is, but a lot of people would have needed them had they been available previously too, I don't think it's truly an accurate measure of poverty.

Low wages
High cost of living
Large working class

@annabel85 but Netflix plus even two or three DVDs a month is now cheaper than a TV licence, so people are spending less ie being less extravagant accessing media this way.

they certainly don't have the spare money to fund a 20 cigarettes a day smoking habit like my nan could.

Were cigarettes as expensive then (in relative terms) as they are today?

A quick Google suggests they were 20p (decimal equivalent) for 20 in 1970, so that's 1p a cigarette. In 2020 they're around £10 for 20, so that's 50p a cigarette. Google also tells me £1 in 1970 is equivalent to £15 today. Therefore if cigarettes were comparable they'd be 15p each, i.e. £3 for £20 - so my 'back of a fag packet' (sorry!) calculation suggests they were much cheaper 50 years ago.

I don't think it's truly an accurate measure of poverty.

When the Trussell Trust surveyed users of its food banks (and you do have to be referred to use them) it found 23% were homeless and 94% were facing 'real destitution', meaning unable to buy essentials to keep warm, clean and fed. That sounds like poverty to me.

Agree it doesn't mean things weren't also very bad in previous years. It's just when you look at the amount of wealth generated in the UK over those years, it's crazy how little of it is trickling down.

june20017
No you don,t have to buy takes away coffee and if you do this every day no wonder your poor.
You say that as if this is a 'thing' that poor people habitually do. FFS. Enough with the victim blaming. The people I know who live payday to payday can barely afford a jar of instant coffee to keep at home. They are certainly not spunking £4 a day in a coffee shop. Does it make you feel all warm and superior pretending poor people are feckless and irresponsible?

As many have stated here, it is relative but my take on it is this:

The UK is fundamentally an individualistic neo-liberal classist country that thrives on capitalism. The essence of this country's powers at be is to take and not give. The public sector that we do have is constantly dragged through the mud by self serving media moguls to make the case that the sector needs to be disbanded.

This 'everyone for themselves' outlook means that large companies can sponge off the hard work of people whilst not paying their fair share of taxes. People are not earning enough to pay for the costs that are rising. Essentials like food, utilities and housing are unnecessarily expensive here.

Fuel is expensive here and something I hear quite a bit at the food bank where I volunteer is that many families eat the tinned food cold- because they cannot afford to heat it every time they eat. No point claiming that people should be budgeting for food, if their fuel costs keep going up. Food costs continue to rise and they will for the next few years.

The feckless large tv benefits image is so far from the truth and lived experiences , but of course a widow/er or even a divorced parent who is starting over with 3 children, who works full time and still struggles to make ends meet and claims FSM and UC won't make the news.

This current govt especially has missed the mark completely on this. They are extremely short sighted and are only looking to protect their own interests and are still convinced by the idiotic Reganomics of the 80's.

It's a shame. I admire some of the things that our European friends do. It is entrenched in them, that if everyone is fed, if everyone has a place to stay, can access good education and can afford some quality of life, everyone wins, everyone. You lift everyone up.

Bailey it was in response to previous posts saying people should be able to afford a take away coffee. I don,t actually believe poor people would be going into Costa and Starbucks every day, but saying if they did it would make them poor due to the costs. It,s not victim-blaming it,s just pointing out that takeaway coffee is expensive.

My point about the coffee was that you SHOULD be able to afford this. A nice hot drink when at work all day shouldn't be an unaffordable extravagance. The fact is that it IS unaffordable for many working people. So I hope the 'we don't have poor people here' lot are happy, lots of working poor CAN'T afford takeaway coffee.

Not reganomics, I meant trickle down :)

In terms of reasons for poverty, UK has one of highest rates of single parenthood in developed countries. France and Belgium have higher rates but better welfare benefits.
The USA has higher levels of poverty as well as highest levels of single parent families.

Father’s who abandon their children don’t pay a sufficient proportion of their income and often choose to have another family without supporting the one they have already. That frequently leaves the first family in poverty.

Older people depending on just the state pension are also forced into poverty when they give up work.. Frequently they were low earners to begin with, so no savings.

I don't think the climate in the UK helps. Cold winters. Also it is now quite overcrowded for its size. And people living close together in cities but large areas not very inhabited.

Drugs

If people are getting takeaway coffees and lunches daily, it’s no wonder they end up feeling poor. Being in a position to afford such luxuries on a daily basis is not something the state should be funding.

I don’t think most poor people do pop into Starbucks most days. The areas with highest deprivation indices aren’t going to have a Costa, Joules or Pret on the shopping parade between the One stop, Bet Fred and the kebab shop.

I'm guessing you have not travelled much OP?

Communities where there isn't much opportunity - seasonal or ex-factory areas. Families stay there because of their community but jobs are lost, people become poorer, their kids see this and many are friends with kids of other breadline people. They think that's just what life is and aren't shown a way out. Some get out (generally academically or otherwise gifted but normal kids aren't shown an 'easy route' to take). So they have kids young and get trapped like their parents.

Then there's the working poor, they work hard but again few opportunities in their area/ with their qualifications so they just struggle. They have kids and struggle more. Maybe they take a few small debts and so they spiral into poverty with interest but can't claim anything because of their basic income.

And then there's people who get divorced/partner dies/ mental health issues/ disabled or whatever and they don't have a support system and they fall by the wayside.

There's a difference between poverty in countries with level 1 and 2 income levels (used to be first world) and income level 4 country poverty - for one many poor children in the UK and overweight because of cheap diets (ofc some are starving as we've seen). Whereas poverty means death from malnutrition or lack of water in the other.

Either way - shouldn't happen in 2020.

If you’re measuring “poor people” by the presence of gym memberships, takeaway coffee and sky subscription you don’t understand poverty. People living in poverty aren’t doing any of those things - there’s a difference between being skint by dint of your lifestyle and living in poverty.

And yes wages are shit

We have the welfare state to support poor people. In developing countries these people die.

60% of people in the country I live in take home less than the equivalent of 250 pounds a month, they live in shacks with mud walls and dirt floors, the toilet might be a hole outside or possibly a portaloo shared with many other people.
I do not live in a country with a particular low cost of living.
I think people in the UK have very little appreciation of what real poverty looks like.

@Viviennemary

I don't think the climate in the UK helps. Cold winters. Also it is now quite overcrowded for its size. And people living close together in cities but large areas not very inhabited.

There's too many on the island as a whole but it's centralisation that's the problem. A lot of towns and cities have seen population decreases from generations ago, despite the UK population increasing by tens of millions.

9 million people live in London alone and millions more commute into it every day (ordinarily). It's ridiculous.