2 new Covid cases in New Zealand

[nowahousewife]

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-73050497.html#

Fingers crossed it's nipped in the bud but does show how difficult it is to keep anywhere free of this disease. If a small country that has pretty much shut itself off from the rest of the world can't stop Covid, what does that tell us?

I do agree that it is too soon to show conclusively which countries have had the best responses but we still have a very high rate of deaths per million (although I recognise that the way deaths are recorded makes it hard to make direct comparisons.

It sounds as if these two people have had limited contact with others.

I enjoyed the house link too nowahousewife. Such a shame the agent has withdrawn it or I'd make an offer. I also laughed at the 'private parking', as if potential vendors would worry they might have to park on the street without this information.

“I am in regular contact with friends and family in NZ (was actually there when they announced shutting the border) and listening to them is v different from what we read in the media here. They have mixed views but certainly do not consider their PM to be the wonderful leader that is portrayed here.”

There will always be opposing views but the overwhelming feeling is Jacinda is in control and her support has never been higher. Luckily for her it’s election year!

• The UK has the highest number of cases relative to population in the world, and with stories like this... I wouldn't be surprised if many countries banned us.”

Where on earth to people get these no locks statistics from with such confidence to post them as fact?

The UK are currently 25th, assuming every country in the world has reported accurately and performed exactly the same percentage of tests. Clearly neither of these things have happened.

I also believe the NZ model is unsustainable and think Sweden have tackled it much better in the long term, and I say that as someone who lives somewhere that has adopted the NZ model and now lifted all restrictions. We are stuffed when borders open, although to be fair we are now doing antigen feting to see what the actual spread was which should provide useful data for other countries.

I can’t comment on the Covid 19 cases but I’m sure that house has been in a film and it’s annoying me now that I can’t remember it! It probably wasn’t that good a film.

Was it that Number 9 one with Denis Lawson in?

In fact, only 7 of the 24 countries above the UK in the list of cases/million have tested more per million than UK have. So in reality the UK of far further down the list than that. Even assuming accurate figures for Peru, Mexico, Outer Mongolia, Sudan etc

oh yes to the house in Inside No. 9

I’m sure NZ can deal with it. They are actually putting people into quarantine properly, not just, oh tell them to stay at home, which is useless.

It’s not ridiculous at all, they’d got everything else completely back to normal, apart from quarantining new arrivals to the country. Far fewer deaths than most countries and presumably less damage to their economy.0

@AlternativePerspective I completely disagree. Countries who shut down early:

• have so far had a much lower death rate. People dying less is always a good thing!
• have given themselves time. Time to prepare their health systems, to learn about best practice socially distancing, to get PPE
• having given themselves time, if they do have an outbreak later, they will not have as many deaths as their health systems will be prepared, and it won’t go through the population so quickly as their track and trace will be better.
• health wise we are learning all the time about what works to help treat. So if you have an outbreak later, then they will get better treatment.
• economy. All the while we crash economy wise, those who shut down early have not had to shut down economies. They will be able to make better decisions later about how to protect their economy.
• tourism will have suffered by closing down flights, however it has suffered more in counties who didn’t lock down. They will be top of the lists tourism wise to open up if they wished, whereas uk and others are bottom.
• they may totally miss Covid 19 if there is an effective vaccine soon.
• they will not have people suffering long term effects and chronic ill health for months or years from covid19.

So... what are your arguments that it was wrong? That they may get an outbreak? That they will be massively more prepared for than us? In a much more stable economy?

And as for herd immunity, this is achieved through a vaccine, just letting the disease rip though so people come out the other side immune (or dead) is just survival of the fittest.

@Givenupno

In fact, only 7 of the 24 countries above the UK in the list of cases/million have tested more per million than UK have. So in reality the UK of far further down the list than that. Even assuming accurate figures for Peru, Mexico, Outer Mongolia, Sudan etc

They won't ever believe the figures because it'll get in the way of Boris bashing. They don't like the true facts

@somewhereeast ok, I was going with the New Scientist for their data but happy to see your data instead.

It might not be the worst in the end, but right now, with the information we have to hand, the information the world actually sees which determines how we are viewed... it makes us look really bad.

@AlternativePerspective has summed up my thoughts/feelings as someone living in NZ.

Yes it's great we can go about our lives as normal. But there seems to be no plan for the long term future. What if there's no vaccine? Do we keep the border closed for years? Forever?

Also comparing places like the UK to NZ is not comparing like for like. NZ had the advantage of seeing what was happening the rest of the world before it reached us, being geographically isolated and also having a smaller population than countries such as the UK. Who can say how the NZ government would have coped with the UK's particular situation?

The next tests for the government are the economy and opening the country back up. Not all of us are quite so ecstatic about Jacinda as the media might lead you to believe and are worried that there seems to be no real plan for the future apart from keep covid out, even if it means keep the rest of the world out (and we don't have good contact tracing systems btw, the government app in particular is a joke....)

It had to happen, the silly thing is that they were allowed to travel to Wellington before being tested. They came in via Qatar and Brisbane so who knows whether they caught the virus in UK, Qatar, Australia or here.

I do feel sorry for the women, they have lost a parent, have travelled half way around the world and are now facing further quarantine.

We cannot close the borders for ever, so I suppose this will ensure the 14 day quarantine is strictly adhered to in future. Hopefully a vaccine will be developed soon.

That house was on a design programme in the uk, wasn't it a competition?

[quote Givenupno]* The UK has the highest number of cases relative to population in the world, and with stories like this... I wouldn't be surprised if many countries banned us.”

Where on earth to people get these no locks statistics from with such confidence to post them as fact?

The UK are currently 25th, assuming every country in the world has reported accurately and performed exactly the same percentage of tests. Clearly neither of these things have happened.

I also believe the NZ model is unsustainable and think Sweden have tackled it much better in the long term, and I say that as someone who lives somewhere that has adopted the NZ model and now lifted all restrictions. We are stuffed when borders open, although to be fair we are now doing antigen feting to see what the actual spread was which should provide useful data for other countries.

[/quote] There are so many facts you have got wrong there. Sweden’s economy is not in any better state than countries who locked down.

Excess death rates show uk to be one of the highest in the world. Along with Sweden. Rates per population excess death rates are the most accurate way to measure.

It is completely clear scientifically that uk, Sweden and others have done very badly compared to Europe and the world.

Smart move op. You can't advertise your house on mumsnet, but you can accidentally link to it instead of a news story

@angelonia sorry, I stand corrected, I was thinking of deaths proportionate to population rather than cases. Early morning homeschooling is muddling my brain. I read it in new scientist but worldometer includes San Marino, Andorra and Belgium above us.

So we are fourth highest. Stand down it is all fine!

change the password you're on to me! I'm a little bored with this place now, looking for something less obvious. Will take reasonable offers....

@Ofitck

They were Brits though. They were under quarantine and allowed out early under compassionate grounds. NZ say there won't be any exceptions to leaving quarantine early anymore. The UK has the highest number of cases relative to population in the world, and with stories like this... I wouldn't be surprised if many countries banned us.

According to Worldometer there are at least five other countries that have more cases per million people than the US. Or did you mean deaths? Even then, we don't (quite) fill the number one slot.

Apologies, crossposted.

Totally agree with what AlternativePerspective said. New Zealand's early shutdown mean that they are now completely dependant on a vaccine being produced (which could be years away, if at all) for them to be able to successfully reopen their borders without the fear of Covid being reintroduced. The only thing they have to their advantage is their small size which should make tracking and tracing much easier than here in the UK.

why was the house linked?

i also feel sorry for the women, as far as i can understand the parent died without them even seeing them despite travelling all that way

@Givenupno

"* The UK has the highest number of cases relative to population in the world, and with stories like this... I wouldn't be surprised if many countries banned us.”

Where on earth to people get these no locks statistics from with such confidence to post them as fact?"

Alright calm down, I've said i said it from memory and had mixed up highest deaths per capita with highest cases per capita! (Mumsnetting casually over breakfast rather than from the university reading room with all the days science journals out.) And the source was new scientist - worldometer has us fourth for deaths p/c behind Belgium, Andorra and San Marino.

As if that makes it any better! I'd rather have more cases than more deaths! And other countries skewing their data... it doesn't make those people less dead. It doesn't even include my gran as she wasn't in hospital

atamaire you missed the second part of my post where I did say the Kiwi's I know think she has done a good job so far but are concerned there appears to be not much of a plan moving forward. A bit like user1471580994 referenced.

Not criticising her response and indeed I wish our UK govt was a bit clearer in it's messaging. But this is an evolving situation and only time will tell which counties have handled things most effectively.

• There are so many facts you have got wrong there. Sweden’s economy is not in any better state than countries who locked down.

Excess death rates show uk to be one of the highest in the world. Along with Sweden. Rates per population excess death rates are the most accurate way to measure.

It is completely clear scientifically that uk, Sweden and others have done very badly compared to Europe and the world.*

Let’s see in two years.

uK “excess deaths” aren’t actually that much up on a few years ago when there was a particularly bad flu season. It’s based on a five year rolling average. Some years are worse than others.