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Original poster

36 COVID fatalities reported today. We are on the way out of this 🌟🌟

534 replies

Jkslays · 14/06/2020 19:01

36 reported fatalities today (weekend caveat), the lowest number since the day before lockdown was announced. 77 & 115 the last two Sundays for comparison

Mercifully, the human toll of this crisis is easing

I'm hopeful the trends will continue to improve

As reported by Professor Karol Sikora on Twitter

This is amazing news and surely our schools should be able to open as normal come September!

OP posts:
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Original poster
Jkslays · 15/06/2020 17:10

@AnyFucker

32 deaths reported today
I wonder if those were pulled over from weekend?

Also has anyone any or know where to find them to show the areas of these people that have sadly died.

OP posts:
SomewhereEast · 15/06/2020 17:10

In what way have they changed how deaths are counted? Have you got a link? I keep fairly up to date via the Guardian / BBC / Torygraph & haven't seen anything about changes. Did I just miss it?

Mascotte · 15/06/2020 17:13

Apparently 6 were from the past week

IcedPurple · 15/06/2020 17:14

I would take the chance if everyone would maintain social distancing and if everyone would wear masks

That's up to you.

Alsohuman · 15/06/2020 17:14

SSP is coming from taxes, taxes that I've paid into for over thirty years without having claimed one penny

Those taxes were spent at the time they were paid. It’s not a piggy bank. We need people working any paying tax now or there will be no benefits or public services for anyone.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 15/06/2020 17:17

@SomewhereEast

In what way have they changed how deaths are counted? Have you got a link? I keep fairly up to date via the Guardian / BBC / Torygraph & haven't seen anything about changes. Did I just miss it?
They've restricted it now to just being those who died from Covid, whereas before now it has been everyone where Covid was on the death certificate, so both from and with.

Not saying it's particularly wrong to limit it only to "from" but that you aren't comparing like with like.

cathyandclare · 15/06/2020 17:17

Where do you have evidence for that?

SomewhereEast · 15/06/2020 17:18

I seem to remember somewhere that the UK is unusual in the extent of its back-dating, which makes our stats look worse than other countries. If anyone has found a really good detailed article comparing different European countries' methodologies I'd love to read it. At the moment my impression is that the UK is actually now at the stricter end of the spectrum in terms of its counting methodology i.e. anyone who tests positive is counted, no matter what other factors are at play; deaths from months ago are included in the stat once confirmed.

IcedPurple · 15/06/2020 17:19

They've restricted it now to just being those who died from Covid, whereas before now it has been everyone where Covid was on the death certificate, so both from and with

By 'they' you presumably mean the NHS and ONS, who are the ones who release the figures. What is your source for this?

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 15/06/2020 17:19

Those taxes were spent at the time they were paid. It’s not a piggy bank. We need people working any paying tax now or there will be no benefits or public services for anyone.

So what? I have never claimed 1p in benefits and I'm 50 now. I should be entitled to a bit more help than £90 a week, given that I'm doing exactly what I'm being told to do by government.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 15/06/2020 17:20

@IcedPurple

They've restricted it now to just being those who died from Covid, whereas before now it has been everyone where Covid was on the death certificate, so both from and with

By 'they' you presumably mean the NHS and ONS, who are the ones who release the figures. What is your source for this?

My source is the news programme where they were discussing it.
SomewhereEast · 15/06/2020 17:21

Where do you have evidence for that?

Yes I'm curious about that too. I don't want to be a dickhead about it, but I'd like to see more detail from another source. I'd expect publications like the Guardian to be all over any remotely significant change like a rash.

Bollss · 15/06/2020 17:21

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

Those taxes were spent at the time they were paid. It’s not a piggy bank. We need people working any paying tax now or there will be no benefits or public services for anyone.

So what? I have never claimed 1p in benefits and I'm 50 now. I should be entitled to a bit more help than £90 a week, given that I'm doing exactly what I'm being told to do by government.

I wholeheartedly agree. There should be some kind of benefit for those shielding, more than sick pay. However to pay for that everyone not shielding needs to go back to work.
Bollss · 15/06/2020 17:22

Well I've googled and I can't find a thing about a change in how we report deaths....?

IcedPurple · 15/06/2020 17:22

My source is the news programme where they were discussing it

Which isn't helpful in the slightest.

A change of that nature would surely be reported fairly extensively, given the media obsession with Covid. I've not seen it anywhere and I follow the news fairly closely. Neither, it would seem, has anyone else here apart from you.

cathyandclare · 15/06/2020 17:24

This section contains information on deaths of patients who have died in hospitals in England and had tested positive for COVID-19 at time of death or where COVID-19 was mentioned on the death certificate.

From NHS England.

This would indicate that any mention of Covid ( on part I or II) and a positive test would be included. Also the ONS data lists people with Covid on the certificate even without a test.

Original poster
Jkslays · 15/06/2020 17:28

[quote SomewhereEast]This is an interesting article on the possibility that we may now actually be over-counting Covid deaths. I'm not exactly a stereotypical Speccy reader but it goes into some fascinating detail:

www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-way-covid-deaths-are-being-counted-is-a-national-scandal[/quote]
This is a really interesting article - and it goes back to dying with COVID and dying because of COVID are two different things.

Shocking that people are not being given autopsys and a single doctor can sign a death certificate by zoom with out even seeing the patient for four weeks Shock

I think how the people in care homes have been treated awfully.

OP posts:
Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 15/06/2020 17:36

Jkslays

Exactly. And that article describes how any death where Covid was suspected was counted in the figures. So, any change to now include only deaths where a positive Covid test has been obtained changes the nature of the statistics.

Bollss · 15/06/2020 17:39

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

Jkslays

Exactly. And that article describes how any death where Covid was suspected was counted in the figures. So, any change to now include only deaths where a positive Covid test has been obtained changes the nature of the statistics.

I don't believe that's the case though is it?

It's where there's been a positive test or its mentioned on the death cert. A doctor can mention it if they suspect it is covid.

Realistically this means some people's death certificates will say covid when they either didn't have it or if they did it was not what killed them.

That article proves somewhat the opposite point of what you're trying to prove.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 15/06/2020 17:44

No, that article was describing how anyone could claim that the dead person possibly had Covid, whether they did or not, because tests hadn't been done. I've just read an article that states that death figures now are for people who have had a positive test, so they aren't comparing similar groups are they?

The first is where someone thought they had it and the second is where it's been confirmed they've had it.

I've also just read the different ways England, Scotland and Wales count and report but it was very confusing - some figures include died from, not with, some only in hospital, some hospitals and care homes, some all settings, some where a positive test confirms it.

cathyandclare · 15/06/2020 17:44

They've restricted it now to just being those who died from Covid, whereas before now it has been everyone where Covid was on the death certificate, so both from and with

This is what you said. That is not true. The daily figures are any mention of Covid and a positive test, so will cover from and with. On a Tuesday they also include the ONS death certificate figures where Covid is suspected but not confirmed.

IcedPurple · 15/06/2020 17:46

I've just read an article that states that death figures now are for people who have had a positive test

Can you link to it?

cathyandclare · 15/06/2020 17:46

But in both the ONS and NHS England figures ( and in the excess deaths of all causes) there is a clear and steady downward trajectory for deaths.

Original poster
Jkslays · 15/06/2020 17:46

Yes it read that deaths that occurred because of other illnesses but they were suspected of having COVID too - were registered as COVID deaths. It’s troubling though because if you were dying of cancer or something else and had mild COVID symptoms - then that would mess the stats up a lot. So the past stats don’t actually mean anything Confused

People in care homes were not properly assessed. If it looks like COVID and sounds like COVID just isn’t good enough.

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Original poster
Jkslays · 15/06/2020 17:47

@cathyandclare

But in both the ONS and NHS England figures ( and in the excess deaths of all causes) there is a clear and steady downward trajectory for deaths.
Yes it does. Which is great news.
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