Could they get furloughed workers to help in schools?

[BlackWhitePurple]

We keep hearing that one problem with reopening schools is that there aren't enough staff to cover split classes.

Would it be feasible to ask now for some furloughed workers to help out in September? I'm thinking the likes of hairdressers, sports coaches etc who are unlikely to be back to work any time soon. If the government are still going to be paying furloughed wages (which presumably they'll have to, if the industries can't open), they could offer to pay 80% instead of 60% or whatever it is, do background checks now, and put some training in place to allow them to at least supervise groups of primary-school children. Also offer to pay SAHP the same amount if they help.

I'm thinking the school could then move, say, the older age groups (from primary) into, say, a village/scout/church/community hall, and spread the younger classes out over the remaining classes and assembly hall.

The teacher could then do the actual teaching, and then leave the class with the TA to complete work, and then go into the other classroom to teach there. An extra person in each class would help with supervision.

It's not ideal, obviously, but it would allow all pupils (in primary at least) back to school with social distancing in place. It would need money to be spent (to boost the furloughed workers' pay, add some SAHPs, hire halls etc), but they've already found billions, and it wouldn't be prohibitively expensive in comparison (plus it would allow taxpayers to return to work).

Obviously it wouldn't work for every school, but it would be a start for some.

It's not likely to go on forever (if everyone goes back to work then we either go back to normal, or Corona spikes again and we go back to lockdown).

Anyone have any other ideas for how things could work?

The problem is there is no space for the children not so much the teachers.

All would need DBS checks, induction and training and many people are not suitable to supervise children normally. We have lots of offers to read and help in school but only the odd person is suitable.

The TAs would be supervising the helpers rather than helping the children. Even helpers reflect your school, standard and ethos.

You are joking right?

I think I'm beginning to see why teachers are so poorly respected...

Teaching is more than babysitting. We don’t just say something at the start of the lesson and then leave kids to it, you’ve to take into consideration the different abilities in the class that could each be doing different tasks, the afl to see if it has gone in, behaviour management, reexplaining something 10 different ways until everyone understands, safeguarding and more! That’s not something most people will be able to learn by September. Trainee teachers have a qualified teacher in with them for the first year and then extra support in their second year, this wouldn’t be available.

Also, the teacher would be swapping bubbles... so the kids might as well then be together!

It's the additional space to accommodate social distancing that's the big issue for schools. Where do you think they are going to conjure up the budget for temporary classrooms and marquees, etc.? And that's assuming there's the space in the school grounds.

What you’re describing isn’t ‘helping in schools’ it is just childcare.

The teacher could then do the actual teaching, and then leave the class with the TA to complete work, and then go into the other classroom to teach there.
I can’t speak for secondary or above but teaching isn’t standing in front of a class and talking at them for 15minutes. The teaching happens throughout the whole lesson.

No.

HTH

Longer answer - did you ever see how things went with the DWP work schemes? They are exploitative. People are furloughed for lots of different reasons including shielding, childcare etc. Hairdressers are mainly self employed. They're not just sitting on their arses waiting for the government to use them as cheap labour.

I don’t think you understand how teaching works op. It’s interactive for the whole lesson...there’s no delivering a quick speech then leaving the kids to get on with it.

You’re also overlooking the fact the safeguarding lead and management would still need to be there.

In fact, you’re overlooking the whole fact that children are actual human beings with complex lives. They don’t just sit there passively waiting to be taught at.

What will happen when a child makes a safeguarding disclosure to a hairdresser who’s had one week of training and a dbs check?

What will happen to the huge percentage of children with additional needs?

Yes, it would be possible to at least improve on what is currently been offered. There are loads of self employed sports coaches, mentors, youth workers etc etc not currently working who would be glad to do it. Many of them are already known to the schools. Space would be an issue but there are also numerous sports and community facilities also closed.

Of course it wouldn't be "normal" school and it may not be the education we'd like for children but it would be better for them than what they're getting at the moment. Lessons could be delivered into community halls etc remotely, so they are still being taught by an actual teacher.

Where there's a will there's a way.

What I'm thinking is that there is time now to do background checks and training.

Yes, it won't be anywhere near as good as having normal teaching. But for a few months it gets kids into school and getting some kind of learning.

Older kids would be in community halls which would be big enough for the whole class to be together, socially distanced. Extra hands could help with things like photocopying etc, carrying stuff from the school to the hall and so on.

The current plan is that teachers will teach one half of the class for 2 days, and the other half for a couple of days - they'll be in contact with all the kids anyway, so it's no more dangerous from that point of view.

And how are you solving the issues of behaviour management? And safeguarding?

So we just carry on as we are then? With children miserable and isolated at home and many parents struggling to work?

Before all of this, if you'd asked the NHS Trusts with Nightingales if they had the space, money and capacity to create a standalone 300+ bed ICU unit I suspect the answer would have been a flat no. And yet they managed it. I don't see why the same levels of resource and operational support can't be thrown at schools to try and make things work so that children can go back.

Extra hands could help with things like photocopying etc, carrying stuff from the school to the hall and so on.
😂 The fact that you’ve even said this says a lot about what you think teaching is.

there is time now to do background checks and training.
Time to do background checks but not to complete training. (And even after training an NQT needs to complete a year of supervised working.)

where are these community halls going to come from?

Where I am the school is in an old victorian building, packed in. Teh classroom open off the hall, so the hall is not a safe separate space. there are one or two samll teaching space, usually used for 1;1 work, none large enough to accommodate more than one adult and one child with distancing (if that)

There is (possibly) enough space to have 2 extra groups on top of the classes. One tiny group in the library, and one hlaf of a class in the one spare space they have.
I our area there are several church halls and a library. If our school uses the ones closest to us, then that is 4 hall spaces plus the scout hut and library. That might just accommodate everyone. But the thing is, that means the much bigger (twice the size) primary down the road has no community spaces left, nor does the one half a mile down the road, as there aren't any churches over there. Nor does the one half a mile in the other direction.... you get the picture.

Also, those spaces are all 10 minutes walk away. A school usually has 3-4 adults walking them along to the library, which is the same block as the school, and no roads to cross. Where are those extra adults going to come from?

Oh dear.

Have you ever been in a school?

So much wrong with this suggestion I don't even know where to start. Such a massively disrespectful view of teaching staff. I despair.

I’ve not said carry on as we are. I have pointed out the huge flaws in OPs suggestion. Think back to being at school, were you ever left in a lesson with a supply teacher where it ended up in chaos, imagine that.... but it’s half the school, and then bare in mind that supply teachers are trained teachers - not hairdressers/Sahm with no teaching experience!

(Not meaning any offence to any of those people - especially supply as you are god sends in most cases)

Groups would be small minielise, so the challenges of behaviour management are much reduced. Sports, drama, music coaches etc do it as part of their usual role anyway. Groups could be selected so the more experienced staff have the most challenging students (who would usually be theirs in a larger group anyway).

These people are already DBS checked and on the schools' central record in many cases. A safeguarding lead would be needed at each site used, but all schools already have DSLs who have done the same training and if extra are needed, it's a couple of days' training for some senior staff, which can be done remotely if necessary.

This is the frustration, every suggestion is met with negativity rather than a will to find a way to make things work.

@RedRed9 I'm not suggesting teachers normally do those things. But I have friends who are TAs who spend a lot of time photocopying, running errands, etc. They're not teachers, but they could do a reasonable job of helping for a couple of months if they were freed up from those things. Certainly better than the job I'm doing of homeschooling.

Older kids would be in community halls which would be big enough for the whole class to be together, socially distanced.
And what, they’re just going to sit there politely and quietly and get on with a worksheet while a hairdresser stands in the room and is there as an adult to call 999 in an emergency?
How is sitting in a hall doing a worksheet without a teacher any better than sitting at home doing a worksheet?

Just seen your last post. Of those spaces, only 1 is big enough for a whole class. Community halls aren't that big!

What you are talking about is childcare not school. Now, there may be an argument for providing that, but please don't call it school.

My kids are years 10 and 12. Thye need quality teaching for their exams. By their schools there are 3 large secndaries in a short distance and probably half a dozen community rooms.
Unless of course they close down the leisure centres and take over those spaces.

So our school has 7 years, two classes of 30 in each year and 14 classrooms (plus hall, music room and library), even if it weren’t for the fact that teachers actually teach throughout lessons weren’t an issue then where do you suggest the additional 12/14 classrooms come from?

@blackwhitepurple

@Whaddyathinkofthis: You are joking right? I think I'm beginning to see why teachers are so poorly respected...

This!!

@WowLucky I think you're on board with what I'm saying. I'm not suggesting that this would be anywhere near the level of regular teaching. I'm saying that for some schools it would provide a way for pupils to be back in school, supervised, getting some level of education and socialisation.

It would allow parents to go back to work, and for students who are currently getting no education, or are vulnerable at home, it at least gets them back into a formal setting.

Oh yeah, anyone can do a teacher's job... FFS people like you give us a bad name. PLEASE come and do my job for a week, even without lockdown. I give you 2 days before you quit - you clearly have NO idea what we do.

I would have thought there are a lot of graduates who have just completed their PGCE year without jobs at the moment. They may be a resource that could be recruited on a temporary basis to help out. They would also have had checks done already as they would have been on placement at some stage during the last 12 months. And I know they are not qualified teachers and cannot replace them, but could be more useful than someone with no training or experience in teaching. And given that a lot of them will be under 30 years old (not all, I know), then also less at risk of becoming seriously ill with covid-19.