Could they get furloughed workers to help in schools?

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We keep hearing that one problem with reopening schools is that there aren't enough staff to cover split classes.

Would it be feasible to ask now for some furloughed workers to help out in September? I'm thinking the likes of hairdressers, sports coaches etc who are unlikely to be back to work any time soon. If the government are still going to be paying furloughed wages (which presumably they'll have to, if the industries can't open), they could offer to pay 80% instead of 60% or whatever it is, do background checks now, and put some training in place to allow them to at least supervise groups of primary-school children. Also offer to pay SAHP the same amount if they help.

I'm thinking the school could then move, say, the older age groups (from primary) into, say, a village/scout/church/community hall, and spread the younger classes out over the remaining classes and assembly hall.

The teacher could then do the actual teaching, and then leave the class with the TA to complete work, and then go into the other classroom to teach there. An extra person in each class would help with supervision.

It's not ideal, obviously, but it would allow all pupils (in primary at least) back to school with social distancing in place. It would need money to be spent (to boost the furloughed workers' pay, add some SAHPs, hire halls etc), but they've already found billions, and it wouldn't be prohibitively expensive in comparison (plus it would allow taxpayers to return to work).

Obviously it wouldn't work for every school, but it would be a start for some.

It's not likely to go on forever (if everyone goes back to work then we either go back to normal, or Corona spikes again and we go back to lockdown).

Anyone have any other ideas for how things could work?

I don't understand the comparison Womanvsfood. The medical staff "acting down" would already have training in the other role, even if it was some time ago.

Not necessarily, no. A gynaecologist or dermatologist may have barely touched on respiratory medicine as part of their training. And when would they ever have done ICU nursing?

Non-clinical staff with no prior experience have been trained to fit-test masks for clinical staff. A high stakes, high risk task. Is that a better comparison?

I know the OP mentioned hairdressers but I think it's a bit disingenuous to keep focusing on them. They will likely be back at work soon anyway. What about corporate learning & development professionals and trainers? Driving instructors? They already have some teaching skills.

Wtaf am I reading. Talk about minimising a teachers job! All they need is background checks and ready to go...bloody hell!

No wonder teachers are leaving the profession, parents by their droves except them to be glorified babysitters. If you have children look after your children it's your responsibility and teachers are their to educate them.

@Mistressiggi I think that’s the best idea I’ve seen, are uni lecturers still offering teaching for students or has it been suspended for now? I would be happy for OFSTED to help however I’m not sure if there would be enough to cover all schools but it would be a start!

This is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever read

Seriously, why not just abandon the idea of social distancing in schools - it can't happen... ther;es no space, not enough staff and even if you use other buildings its just not feasible.

Just do away with the idea, send the kids back full time in September, open the summer school clubs, use PPE and extra hand-washing and just fucking get on with it. People won't be furloughed forever, and all those saying "I'm not going back and nor is my child until it's 100% safe!!!" will soon change their tune when Furlough payments end - and all of a sudden it's a choice of returning to work and being paid, or taking indefinite unpaid leave/redundancy/UC. They still won't have magicked up extra staff/space by then, so it will just have to be back to the status quo come September

Mummytobe0920 you must have led a very sheltered life then!

@minielise yes university lecturer are still teaching until the end of term, adapting, setting and marking assessments and doing the myriad of admin roles that are assigned (that are now 10 times more complicated and time-consuming as we try to respond to changes in university wide policy). We are also carrying on with externally -funded research (which we are contractually obliged and paid to do), and will spend the summer adapting our teaching to a blended learning approach in order to provide the highest possible quality of education for our students. All while homeschooling our own children. I for one am far busier than ever at this already busy time of the year.

Well I’m going to propose there will be a shortage of hairdressers, they are going to be so busy when allowed to open.

So let’s put the furloughed people into some training now, I mean they can cut a colour can’t they?

We’ll give them a budget for some scissors and hair gel, and they’ll be good to go come September.

If they need any help we’ll get some jobless teens to sweep up. They could also hold an umbrella as it’ll have to be outdoors, and wash hair with a hose pipe - but needs must

Again, do I laugh, cry or scream!?!

GreenTulips I know you're being facetious but you could have furloughed people sweeping up, washing hair, answering phones, making appointments, making teas and coffees, maybe even mixing up dyes, thereby freeing up those with hairdressing skills (including juniors) to actually cut and colour hair. That would be more in line with what I think the OP was suggesting.

I think you could probably also get furloughed people blow drying with a limited amount of training.

Schools in the main are willing to listen to sensible suggestions. We are desperately trying to find ways of ensuring that all of our students can access school - but we have 900 kids in a building that is too small anyway. There are no spare classrooms, and sometimes the hall/gym/sports hall are all in use at once.

Even if we have half of the kids in, we still need cleaners, caterers, support staff for specific needs, admin staff etc. How do we replicate that across however many buildings we need for the other 450 kids and their teachers? How do staff teach Art, Food Tech, Computing at GCSE without access to specialist rooms? How do we ensure the safety of all students and our staff?

And, above all, how do we do all of this with absolutely bugger all central steer from the government?

A number of years ago, an experiment was done with reception aged children.
They were taught how to wash their hands properly, and then everyone washed their hands when they entered the classroom.
In the morning
After break
After lunchtime
In addition they did it when they went to the loo, and before lunch.

The incident of illness dropped by 70%. No stomach bugs, no colds, and no flu. Despite the fact that the kids still touched each other, touched the same toys and touched their own faces.

Now I know COVID-19 is infectious and probably more infectious than ordinary flu, but the reason the government went all out on handwashing is exactly this. It works to massively reduce infection.
It isn't perfect, but it does work. But because it is so simple, people don't believe it.
When I went to buy some hand sanitizer, the person in Boots said - you do know that soap and water is just as good, if not better don't you? There is even a great science thing on-line for kids about why soap is so effective, but most people think they are being fobbed off when they are told that to combat a highly infectious nasty disease, what they need to do is wash their hands.

So, large bottles of hand sanitizer at every classroom door. Everytime you enter the classroom, you use it. before lunch you use it. No assemblies/joint classes, and careful staged pick ups and drop offs.
Wait unitl the R rate has dropped more, so there is less virus around, allow areas of the country (like NW at the moment) that are having an outbreak to wait, and then just open the schools to all children.

I think that all those furloughed jobs will be back before schools anyway!

Although people thinking that others could not possibly do a teachers job have to remember that for many the last 3 months have had an email of what tv to watch (BBC Bitesize) or Youtube suggestions for lessons so I'm sure if no other arrangements anyone not working and DBS checked could do that,

It wouldn't hurt to take on more TA's to support teachers though and have the very vulnerable teachers at home doing planning/paperwork/marking etc and the ones in the schools spending most of the time teaching.

The space thing is a massive problem though unless they decide that social distancing with children doesn't matter. They don't seem to do it with keyworkers children in local school anyway and our own local school has not had an outbreak yet.

And, above all, how do we do all of this with absolutely bugger all central steer from the government?

This is absolutely key. I feel so sorry for schools that they have been left swinging by government. They needed a clear plan and operational support from the outset. Hospitals are already full of project and operational managers who are used to 'transforming' services on a sixpence, schools don't ordinarily work like this and it's unreasonable to expect them to suddenly be able to.

That said, I do still find some of the reluctance towards lateral thinking/creativity combined with the 'computer says no' attitudes on this thread quite depressing,

The most shocking thing about this thread is the complete and utter ignorance of how schools nowadays operate. And the apparent belief that anything is better than nothing.

Yes, for any of this to work, which I do think some of it could, it needs to be a government plan, not individual schools trying to do something off the wall.

Doingmyownthing - the most common worry student teachers have at the beginning of their training is how to manage behaviour. In my time training teachers (and I have seen a lot of trainees and NQTs through as my last three schools were all training schools and I have mentored at least one student and/or NQT every single year of my career up until I left the profession) behaviour management has generally proven a much bigger challenge than subject knowledge.

Even if (IF) the suggested supervision by volunteers consisted only of giving worksheets and BBC bitesize links to a class the challenge is infinitely greater than it is at home, as anyone who has ever delivered a cover lesson can probably tell you!

Thanks 'alittleodd' I appreciate the reply.

I personally think that schools should just return with good hand washing and not social distancing in areas where infection rates are low.

Here rural area and infection rate extremely low and death rate throughout entire period low.

I personally think that schools should just return with good hand washing and not social distancing in areas where infection rates are low.
I personally have no problem with this, but would teachers accept this (even if they had access to PPE)?

It wouldn't work here at all. We don't have any community spaces in our area. There is one church but it doesn't have a hall as they sold that ages ago as it wasn't being used (not many church goers here). There is one sports hall but that is privately owned and they would want money to rent it out, it also isn't that big so could maybe fit one class in. There isn't really anything else aside from a swimming pool. The council don't have enough money to fund or maintain any community spaces.

The local schools are all in Victorian buildings that were already too small. Their playgrounds are tiny as again, land was sold off. A lot of teachers are shielding, they already had vacancies as they are struggling to recruit teachers. Two teachers are now on maternity leave. They are closed at the moment, can't offer keyworker children places.

My friend is a hairdresser and she is self employed. Another friend is a youth worker but their contract specifically says they cannot work anywhere else and can't get another job while furloughed. In fact, my husband and many other friends have also been told they cannot work elsewhere. It also doesn't cover the childcare problems that already exist, my hairdresser friend has one child who will only go back part time in September and one young child who has been told they can't go back to nursery as they are prioritising key worker children. All others in area are full and there is a shortage of childminders.

Gavin Williamson, the Secretary of State for Education spoke in Parliament yesterday, he wasn't really very good at answering the questions, and he kept talking about a long term plan for which he gave no details. But there were some hints that they possibly are considering using other locations, possibly Secondary schools to get more Primary school children in. Will have to wait for further guidance documents which I assume will come out in due course.

These are some quotes from Parliament yesterday:
Damian Hinds (East Hampshire) (Con)
My right hon. Friend is acutely conscious of the detriment caused by this extended period away from school, educationally, socially and for mental and physical health, so can we have maximum flexibility for those schools that could welcome back more children—for example, with rotas for the use of suitable additional premises or even by having year 6 pupils doing extended transition time in their soon-to-be secondary school if and where schools locally believe they can do that?

Gavin Williamson
My right hon. Friend is absolutely correct. We want to give schools the maximum flexibility to get as many children as possible through the doors before the summer holidays so that we can maximise their learning opportunities as a result.

Mrs Flick Drummond (Meon Valley) (Con)
As my right hon. Friend the Member for Epsom and Ewell (Chris Grayling) just said, children who are transitioning into a new school must have extra support over the next few months so that they feel comfortable about entering their new school. Has my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State given any consideration to allowing those in year 6 to spend time this term in their new secondary school so that they are fully prepared for September?

Gavin Williamson
My hon. Friend highlights an important benefit that can be given to children—the opportunity to spend vital time in a setting that will become their new school—and asks how we can help facilitate that. There is also the question of how we can relieve some of the pressures that may exist in the primary school system so that primary schools can look at bringing more children in. This is one of the options as part of the increasingly flexible approach that we will be taking to getting more children into school and more children benefiting from education

Miss Sarah Dines (Derbyshire Dales) (Con)
My right hon. Friend has tried very hard to get as many children as possible back to school, particularly vulnerable children. Does he agree not only that education supports social factors and wellbeing, but that it is immensely important to get those in non-accessible areas, including rural areas such as Derbyshire Dales, back to school as soon as possible, when it is safe?

Gavin Williamson
My hon. Friend hits the nail on the head. We need to get every child back to school. We should not stint in our ambition to see all children back in school and learning at the very earliest opportunity. I do not want the return to school to be delayed. Picking up on the points made by my right hon. Friend the Member for East Hampshire (Damian Hinds), it is important to look at different ways to bring more children back so that they have the opportunity to learn and to be set new tasks and new learning goals by their teachers before the summer.

I'm a midday supervisor and ready and willing to go back to help in school but they don't need me at the moment.

@controversialquestion

I personally think that schools should just return with good hand washing and not social distancing in areas where infection rates are low. I personally have no problem with this, but would teachers accept this (even if they had access to PPE)?

I would accept it if every other workspace, including GP surgeries, did the same.

There are a lot of people getting (IMO) unnecessarily offended by this. The OP hasnt said, "teaching is so easy, anyone could do it" they have mooted the idea that there are some aspects that could possibly be done by others to enable a teacher to deliver the actual teaching.

I trained for my job for 5 years, I couldnt pluck some randommer (or even a teacher) from the street and ask them to do it. I work with hazardous chemicals and expensive machinery - mistakes could result in injury and/or thousands of pounds of damage. However, there are some aspects that my 13 year old could do....as in answering the phone, emailing an order or writing a post form.

I still think that actual teachers would be spread too thinly to get this to work (although potentially the gov could do a drive to recruit recently retired teachers, or those on a career break, as they did with the nhs)...although that still leaves the "available suitable space " issue. There is a recently closed preschool about 100m from my DC school that could easily accommodate a reception class, esp as it already has corridor, cloakroom child friendly toilets etc but that would only solve part of a much bigger problem.