Could they get furloughed workers to help in schools?

[BlackWhitePurple]

We keep hearing that one problem with reopening schools is that there aren't enough staff to cover split classes.

Would it be feasible to ask now for some furloughed workers to help out in September? I'm thinking the likes of hairdressers, sports coaches etc who are unlikely to be back to work any time soon. If the government are still going to be paying furloughed wages (which presumably they'll have to, if the industries can't open), they could offer to pay 80% instead of 60% or whatever it is, do background checks now, and put some training in place to allow them to at least supervise groups of primary-school children. Also offer to pay SAHP the same amount if they help.

I'm thinking the school could then move, say, the older age groups (from primary) into, say, a village/scout/church/community hall, and spread the younger classes out over the remaining classes and assembly hall.

The teacher could then do the actual teaching, and then leave the class with the TA to complete work, and then go into the other classroom to teach there. An extra person in each class would help with supervision.

It's not ideal, obviously, but it would allow all pupils (in primary at least) back to school with social distancing in place. It would need money to be spent (to boost the furloughed workers' pay, add some SAHPs, hire halls etc), but they've already found billions, and it wouldn't be prohibitively expensive in comparison (plus it would allow taxpayers to return to work).

Obviously it wouldn't work for every school, but it would be a start for some.

It's not likely to go on forever (if everyone goes back to work then we either go back to normal, or Corona spikes again and we go back to lockdown).

Anyone have any other ideas for how things could work?

What about ALL the other areas where there are staff shortages and changes due to covid? Picking fruit/veg, closed outpatients and hospital clinics etc. Should furloughed staff now go and help out there too OP?

Only the 3 youngest year groups would be split. The older groups would be in community halls etc where desks could be far enough apart that the entire class could be taught by the teacher.

The extra staff would basically be there to manage the logistics of this - walking them there etc. All regular teachers, assistants etc are still present in every class.

My Mum has been waiting for an operation and is likely to be waiting quite a while longer. She'll be relieved to hear a hairdresser could have a crack at it in a village hall.

Currently it is childcare at schools but hopefully we can move to teaching properly which needs actual teachers. The issue isn’t staff it’s that there isn’t enough room for social distance. I work in secondary. We can now get 10 individual desks in a room at correct distance Rather than 30 pupil seats. So even with all staff back We only have space for 1/3 of the school. That includes using spaces like the hall and sports hall as they are already counted as classrooms

@Bobbiepin I have never suggested they'd do the teacher's job. I've suggested that in 3 year groups, they would, at most, help out the teaching assistant.

Why is everyone responding as if I've suggested that all schools are now entirely staffed by hairdressers?!

No one's suggesting that it would be a good permanent substitution for a properly functioning school but if that's not possible there must be a way to deliver something better than children are currently getting.

Everyone who knows why these ideas categorically won't work, what would you do? That's what gives teaching a bad name, the refusal (by some) to even consider anything different.

Groups could be selected so the more experienced staff have the most challenging students

so the well behaved children get fuck all teaching while the ones with high needs get 100% of the teachers attention?

Again - what community spaces? one church hall here, and another church hall there. Each site needs safeguarding lead, and a teacher on site plus the adults 'helping' the spaces aren't that big, or that useful in terms of size.

Oh dear, back to the drawing board Dominic

Don't forget you need someone to do the risk assessment and planning, sending of consent letters and managing the returned signed forms, for the school trips that are happening every day to get these students to the local community centre...

And you'll need 2 safeguarding representatives on every site.

I am speechless.

I am furloughed. Where do I sign to say I don't want to help in a school? I would hate it.

@BlackWhitePurple

Only the 3 youngest year groups would be split. The older groups would be in community halls etc where desks could be far enough apart that the entire class could be taught by the teacher.

The extra staff would basically be there to manage the logistics of this - walking them there etc. All regular teachers, assistants etc are still present in every class.

There are no community halls within walking distance of my sons school. Do you think its safe for 30 seven year olds to walk to a different venue while being 2m away from each other? Have you thought about road crossings?

Lets imagine we did have community halls near us, my sons school would need eight community halls in walking distance not only with enough room for 30 children to be spaced apart. But with adequate toilet facilties, hand washing facilities, a whiteboard and tables/chairs.

A school not to far away has form form entry, for their primary school pupils to attend in your model they would need 16 community halls in walking distance.

You have also failed to realise the ‘spare’ teachers are teaching the younger years who have been split into bubbles. At my sons school they have Yr R, 1 and 6 in and two keyworker bubbles, this has used all of their teaching staff.

If I was dbs checked and they wanted me I'd absolutely go in and help but I doubt they would want me .
If I get dbs checked and who would pay for it ? and i believe takes time it could be a waste of time as I could be back in work the following week .
I'm getting a bit tired of all this get the furloughed doing something.
From July employees will need to start contributing so we will either be going back to work or made redundant or continue furloughed for a little longer .
This isn't a long term situation so stop trying to find jobs for us , we have a job just can't go back yet .

I think there could potentially be a role for sports coaches and youth workers etc in schools, and others with relevant experience of working in a professional capacity with children and young people. I'm not sure what value hairdressers or sahps would add tbh. Random adults will not address the issue that there are not enough qualified teaching staff to teach children in socially distanced classes.

I don't think anyone is saying that anyone can teach. What they are saying is that maybe we should look at whether there are other models we could temporarily consider which would be better than kids at home who may or may not be able to access wifi being sent work. The current provision is massively variable in quality (even between my own two children) and much of that would not really be called "teaching" either. Can we at least not open up a discussion about alternatives if business as usual come September is not a possiblity?

When I read these threads I'm always really surprised about the extent of dogmatic thinking and obstruction in relation to new ways of working for schools. These are not normal times and things need to be done differently - quite drastically so in many cases. We may have to accept that perfect is unobtainable and work instead with what's achievable.

In relation to schools and education I believe there's an awful lot more that's achievable than is currently being considered or planned for.

This wouldn't work to cover teachers as PPs have said regarding space, AfL, planning, cost of DBSs etc. But long term I would love parents or helpers in my class to assist with readers or extra support with one to ones to free up my TA who could work with groups/interventions. It may also increase the numbers of trainee teachers if volunteers enjoy it and schools could support teacher/TA training

That's such a terrible idea

All regular teachers, assistants etc are still present in every class
But the whole issue is that there’s not enough staff...

In your plan: let’s take a typical 2 form entry Primary school as an example:
That school would usually have 14 classes (so let’s say there are 14 teachers available). Say for example that Years R-3 are split into three bubbles. So that’s 12 teachers needed there. There are now only 2 teachers left to go to the community hall but Years 4, 5 and 6 all need teachers (6 teachers needed).

This also is assuming absolutely no teachers are shielding or ill themselves and all are available.

(Also, where are you getting the 6 community halls for Years 4,5 &6 to go to?)

Again, so what would you do steppermum?

If we can't make it perfect for everyone, we don't even try? Those "challenging" children are often the most in need, so yes that would be OK IMO, but that's not what I'm suggesting. The teachers could deliver the lessons remotely.

Obviously every community is different but within walking distance of here there's a Scout hut, a dance school, a huge council run sports centre, two community halls and a number of closed pubs and restaurants. Not all will be suitable but again, why not at least consider it?

Sorry employer not employee will contribute

Thanks, @WowLucky, that's all I'm suggesting. For some schools, for a limited time, I'm saying this might be worth looking at as an improvement on the current provision.

Some schools and parents may well be happy with how things are going. But I know people who will literally have to quit their jobs if their kids don't go back to school in September. We have to do something.

I am furloughed and would be happy to help out however needed at the school. However I'm expecting to be back at work next month (hospitality) so I wouldn't be able to do it for long. I don't think there will be many people still on full furlough in September, most will be back at work or working reduced hours and getting part time furlough until business picks up a bit more.

The ONLY solution is to fucking abandon the idea of social distancing on schools...it can't and won't ever work, unless the magically double the size/number of schools and staff.

This is demeaning to teachers and TA’s who are highly trained professionals. You can’t just ask a hairdresser to take over in the same way I wouldn’t ask an untrained hairdresser to cut my hair because it would look shit.