Could they get furloughed workers to help in schools?

[BlackWhitePurple]

We keep hearing that one problem with reopening schools is that there aren't enough staff to cover split classes.

Would it be feasible to ask now for some furloughed workers to help out in September? I'm thinking the likes of hairdressers, sports coaches etc who are unlikely to be back to work any time soon. If the government are still going to be paying furloughed wages (which presumably they'll have to, if the industries can't open), they could offer to pay 80% instead of 60% or whatever it is, do background checks now, and put some training in place to allow them to at least supervise groups of primary-school children. Also offer to pay SAHP the same amount if they help.

I'm thinking the school could then move, say, the older age groups (from primary) into, say, a village/scout/church/community hall, and spread the younger classes out over the remaining classes and assembly hall.

The teacher could then do the actual teaching, and then leave the class with the TA to complete work, and then go into the other classroom to teach there. An extra person in each class would help with supervision.

It's not ideal, obviously, but it would allow all pupils (in primary at least) back to school with social distancing in place. It would need money to be spent (to boost the furloughed workers' pay, add some SAHPs, hire halls etc), but they've already found billions, and it wouldn't be prohibitively expensive in comparison (plus it would allow taxpayers to return to work).

Obviously it wouldn't work for every school, but it would be a start for some.

It's not likely to go on forever (if everyone goes back to work then we either go back to normal, or Corona spikes again and we go back to lockdown).

Anyone have any other ideas for how things could work?

I’m a qualified teacher, I left teaching to start my own business which I’ve now lost due to the lockdown, I would happily go back to teaching or being a TA if they needed my help.

@BlackWhitePurple

Why don't you do a ring round of your local schools and suggest your masterplan to them. They could probably do with a laugh.

@WowLucky and how many schools will need to share those spaces you mentioned?
And that still does nothing to address that there wouldn’t be enough staff.

I agree we should think outside the box. But with every idea you then have to actually sit down and work out logistics and run the numbers. And if they don’t add up they don’t add up! (Read my last post to see the maths for yourself.)

"Don't forget you need someone to do the risk assessment and planning, sending of consent letters and managing the returned signed forms, for the school trips that are happening every day to get these students to the local community centre...

And you'll need 2 safeguarding representatives on every site."

How long do you think a risk assessment takes if that's really a barrier we are in trouble. SLs can be trained in a couple of days, most teacher will already have the knowledge if it the certificate, so that's easily resolved and you really don't need two at every site and you can get a blanket consent, although you wouldn't need it, youd just change the usual place of education temporarily.

Of course there would be challenges, does that mean we don't even try?

a way to deliver something better than children are currently getting

OK for some children this will be better that what they are getting. But realistically for many, it is no better. The advantage this has is that the parents can go back to work. As I said above, call it child care not school, and maybe the argument holds water.

For my 3 teens, this is not a better alternative. The on-line schooling is working better than this would, even though it is far from ideal.

What would I do? I would drop the attempt to get kids to socially distance, it is bollocks. I would return schools to 'normal' with certain restrictions in place. Careful handling of drop off and pick up. Hand sanitizers as they enter the room, and then at regualr intervals (or hand washing). No mixing of classes. No assemblies, every child out of the field for pe every day, packed lunches at desks.
No hugging etc when playing, but don't try to do social distancing.

teachers who are shielding not required to return, teachers free to wear ppe if they chose.

Not yet, we need another few weeks, we still have to many deaths, but certainly in September there is no reason why we shouldn't go back like this.

I would like to see all year 10 and 12 in school now. Furious actually that nursery went back and year 10 and 12 didn't - ridiculous in the extreme. The schools can usually accommodate 7 year groups so they must be able to manage 2 with social distancing. Kids who won't obey have ot have parent sit with them (better than sending them home!)

If pubs and restaurants are safe to open in July, school sare safe to go back.
As a nation we have to accept there is going to be a low level of risk at all times, that is the future unless this is eradicated or a vaccine found.

It's true there's no easy solution and many of these ideas will turn out to be non starters but it's the imeadiate insistence that nothing could possible improve what we have that is frustrating.

The problem we now have is that without ANY leadership from the government on how to get schools back up and running in a safe way, everyone is trying to problem solve FOR them.

I respect that you're at least trying to offer a solution here OP rather than the usual 'teachers need to step up/ teachers obviously don't care about kids if they don't dance back into schools. The issue is that because everyone went to school they think they know how schools and education and teaching works. It needs to be left to schools (with clear guidance from the government and extra funding to resource changes) to see how best to tackle the problem.

@hellsbells99 there are pgce graduates but that will only be beneficial in terms of extra staff until July as from September they will be working in the schools they have got permanent jobs at I imagine! Obviously with this going on I wonder if there will be less people completing a PGCE next year as a result of uncertainty meaning we will be even shorter the year after. At our school we’ve advertised the same roles 2-3 time’s for September and we’ve not had any applications!

@WowLucky if it was a good suggestion it wouldn’t be met with negativity. I work in a school and can’t think of a solution, lots of people seem to think that because they went to school they know how to fix all of the problems. Yes those people do have experience with smaller groups, but many do other jobs alongside these roles - I volunteer at brownies for instance. Smaller groups aren’t always easier, some will be but if you are in an inner city school that is known for behaviour issues then there will be many groups that are unmanageable. We have teachers that are outstanding and have been teaching 20 years, they still have classes they struggle with at times, regardless of group size.
The safeguarding lead will be onsite but they won’t be with every child so it would be down to the adults in the room to deal with initial disclosures and flag up any concerns - these staff won’t have any experience in what to look for (pgce and at have support available to help with this)

I want to go back to work because I miss my classes and I know that a large amount of them will be struggling at home, but I don’t want them back until we know how we will manage it.

So furloughed workers will be forced labour to provide your childcare , why not just bring back indentured servants? Why would someone want to do this, not everybody likes working with children or wants to take the risk of doing so.

Pretty sure my employer would have something to say about that when they need me back! They were not at all keen to allow people to work or even volunteer elsewhere (our contracts require their permission for second jobs) because of the risk of contracting Covid-19. As such they are paying us full salary. Plus I'm shielding so not prepared to put myself at additional risk.

Those on furlough are not layabouts expecting money for nothing. We are employees who cannot work because of the current situation. Probably about time some people realised that

You shouldn't have mentioned hairdressers OP but there are lots of people experienced and qualified in working with children who are currently unable to work. Not teachers, but more than able to support teachers.

The vast majority of furloughed workers who are not having to look after their own children will have no experience of childcare. My husband is furloughed - he's never looked after a child in his life! By the time you'd trained them in the basics, they'd probably be going back to their normal jobs.

Yeah sure, perhaps some of us furloughed workers could also work on creating a vaccine while we are at it

Assuming such community centres exist (I can only think of one tiny one near me, maybe enough for two classes but definitely not the half a dozen schools in town), where would the money come from to hire and maintain them?

that is the future unless this is eradicated or a vaccine found.

You make it sound like eradicating the spread is implausible but New Zealand have done it! Far too many people have the attitude that 'oh well the government failed by not handling lockdown properly so let's just accept it and move on' far too many people are willing to accept that the government have FAILED us and instead bury their head in the sand and say we should just suck up the risk.

This is demeaning to teachers and TA’s who are highly trained professionals. You can’t just ask a hairdresser to take over in the same way I wouldn’t ask an untrained hairdresser to cut my hair because it would look shit.

Consultants in other specialties were expecting to act down as respiratory junior doctors, or even ICU nurses, as part of the Covid response. Any of those parties might have had an issue with this, but they were prepared to do it.

So some teachers will spend their days travelling back and forth between different buildings? What if those buildings don't have wifi, or enough toilets, or child-size chairs and tables? Would equipment be left there overnight? What about security during the day, to stop parents/other people coming in or children running out, and overnight for equipment? How would each place have a designated first aider on site? Would these people be happy to have pupils with medical needs on site and administer medicines when required (I'm thinking asthma/ allergies rather than more complex needs)? Would parents be happy their child was one in a church hall with no wifi or outdoor space but others were in school with an interactive whiteboard, lots of equipment and space to have a break?

I like the idea of using other spaces but struggle to see how it can actually be implemented.

Lol. No.

ODFOD

I've been SLT in school for 8 years, minielise, I do have some considerable experience of how schools work I also had a long career in industry, which wouldn't stand for this assumption that every different idea must be bad. There has to be a solution. In previous roles it was never OK to trash someone's ideas unless you had a better one. It's actually really concerning that so many educators can't embrace that!

Not teachers, but more than able to support teachers.
It’s the space and the teachers that we’re lacking @WowLucky so, although it would be helpful to have more help, it would do absolutely nothing to solve the original problem.

There is some merit in looking at sports, music and drama coaches, language tutors, outdoor pursuits trained people etc, taking half classes for alternative halves of the day (in community centres, village halls, libraries) whilst the teachers teach maths, English and a bit of topic work to the other half of the class in the other half of the day (or alternate days). This might work at primary level. Challenging logistically on getting them there, and risk assessments on the suitability of the buildings, but possible.

Secondary? Not relevant at all, I don't think.

@WowLucky

you listed off the free spaces near you.

A few posts previous to yours I listed off the free spaces near us. 2 church halls, with 2 room each, only one of the 4 large enough for a whole class.
One scout hut, not large,
one library, large enough for one class (assuming it isn't re-opening)
I'll add to the list 3 pubs, but as they will be keen to re-open, I think you can cross those off.
and maybe one dance school (but that is a small one room school, not sure if it is big enough to count)
So, potentially 7 spaces, only one of which will hold a whole class. So maybe 4 classes altogether?

Within a half mile of those 3 spaces, there are 3 primary schools who would need to use them. One is 1 form entry, 2 are 2 form entry, that is 21 classes. (not counting the nursery classes at all 3 schools)

Let's be generous and say they can accommodate half their students (ours can't, the rooms are small, but lets's err on the side of generosity) that leaves 10-11 classes to accommodate, with enough community spaces for 4 classes.

Where do the rest go?
And what about the nursery classes, which is another 10 groups of children?

The numbers don't add up.

never mind walking the kids at 2m apart down the (busy) road to get to the church halls.

It could do "something" Red. The coaches deal with behaviour while teachers deliver remotely. Additional space can be found. Perhaps not enough, but some. Bear in mind if we're splitting classes, they don't need to be big spaces.

I know there are no easy answers but I do wish there was more willingness to try

Why would staff be walking the DC to the church? That's the whole point, they wouldn't go to the school, staggered start times if necessary for families with multiple children at different sites.

If classes are to be split in half (less those whose parents don't send them) more than half can be accommodated in school. Maybe not everyone could be in full time but we could do a lot better than we're doing now.

Yes, of course, government will need to put up some money.