‘Teachers must run summer schools to help pupils to catch up’

[DNAshelicase]

...said the children’s commissioner. Uhmm no hun. I’m a teacher and have already worked through Easter and half term for free, contrary to popular belief we are not paid for holidays. If I’ll be paid handsomely for overtime I’d consider it but tbh I need a break. Wouldn’t get into the profession if we didn’t care about the kids but they aren’t more important than our own kids, the suggestion is a piss take.

I think the point is that the summer holiday is not annual leave in the true sense of the term. As I understand it, teachers are not paid for that time. Someone correct me if I'm wrong on that.

There's a second point there which is that whilst there are undoubtedly some teachers who haven't worked that much during this time (and this isn't exclusive to teachers but is reflected across all sectors and workforces I imagine), there are some who have worked their contracted hours and some who have gone beyond that. You can't expect the whole profession to work for free to make up for a few who have worked less than contracted.

This is nothing more than the usual mumsnet teacher pile on. I don't see any other professionals getting bashed like this.

French - I’m a teacher, I’ve been working significantly longer hours than normal to deliver decent online teaching, should I be paid overtime?
If parents are angry that their children are falling behind others who getting more support at home than their children the answer seems obvious?

As someone else said, you get paid for 190 days a year. The salary is then divided equally over 12 months. But we do not get paid for the holidays and we already work through them planning and getting the classroom ready for next term.

No, teachers are paid for 195 days a year which is directed ie teaching, staff meetings PPA etc. Teachers then also gave to work additional hours non-directed iemarking, planning etc. Those hours are also paid, just not quantified.

‘You can't expect the whole profession to work for free to make up for a few who have worked less than contracted. ‘

I most definitely agree with this.
Plus you can bet your bottom dollar it would be the teachers/schools that have worked extra hours and provided good provision who would do the summer schools and the less hardworking wouldn’t manage it.

I missed off the 5 days for inset.

And, yes, you are quite right, pay does cover those extra non- quantified things.

Bit what it does not cover is the 12 weeks of school holidays as standard. Yes, we work during the school holidays but that doesn't mean we can just be called in to work them.

It reminds me of that thread where someone said the teachers were looking too grumpy at pickup after a residential trip, and the teacher should of course be happy because of all that overtime pay 😂

I don’t know what it is about teachers’ contracts, pay & conditions etc that people so wilfully misunderstand!

All this to-ing and fro-ing over paid holidays or not is irrelevant.

For people who have not read it, here is a link to the pay and conditions document:
www.gov.uk/government/publications/school-teachers-pay-and-conditions

The paragraphs that are relevant are:

51.2. A teacher employed full-time must be available for work for 195 days, of which:
a) 190 days must be days on which the teacher may be required to teach
pupils and perform other duties; and
b) 5 days must be days on which the teacher may only be required to perform
other duties; and
those 195 days must be specified by the employer or, if the employer so directs,
by the headteacher.

51.7. In addition to the hours a teacher is required to be available for work under
paragraph 51.5 or 51.6, a teacher must work such reasonable additional hours as
may be necessary to enable the effective discharge of the teacher’s professional
duties, including in particular planning and preparing courses and lessons; and
assessing, monitoring, recording and reporting on the learning needs, progress
and achievements of assigned pupils.
51.8. The employer must not determine how many of the additional hours referred to in
paragraph 51.7 must be worked or when these hours must be worked

Summer schools are unlikely to be on the directed time budget of 1265 hours. Therefore, teachers cannot be directed to be in school.

I don’t know what it is about teachers’ contracts, pay & conditions etc that people so wilfully misunderstand!

I think it's because it's so far out of other people's realm of experience that they simply can't believe it is as it is and think we're lying.

Teachers need a break. I'm sure they do. Everyone needs a break.

But some of the comments asking for work or assistance during the holidays is coming from families like mine - one KW parent, one trying to work f/t from home while trying to manhandle and slightly educate 2 children who are too young to manage themselves.

No furlough available, only quitting or unpaid parental leave. The idea of having a 6 week break actually makes me cry.

To be fair, you do get some teachers saying we are only contracted to work 1265 hours, so the confusion is inside as well as outside the profession.

I know it's off on a tangent,but I'm paid less than people in my close circle who aren't educated to the same level as me. They both get to knock of at 5 every day and no one expects them to work extra hours to do their job. They also get whole weekends off. Funnily enough, they wouldn't swap places with me.

And as for kids working long hours having the advantage, one dc finishes their maths in minutes. The other can sit for hours. Guess which one struggles?

Hopeclearwater I think teachers are actually well paid for the level of training they have. Compare them to nurses who are also graduates. That said, I think the idea that they should take a pay cut as some sort of goodwill gesture is absurd. Or that they should work for free in the holidays - why would we pick on them to pressure to work in their free time? The holidays are massive but that is the terms and conditions and we can't just change that on a whim. I think there are employment laws to prevent that!

The idea that they've not been working because many children have not been in school is also ridiculous. It takes no less time to look after/ teach a multi-year keyworker group than it does to teach their normal group and there is other non-teaching work (risk assessments and planning etc) that they've been doing as well as any remote learning and contact with pupils.

We also only get paid for 39 weeks of the year so unions would be up in arms about it, I really wouldn't worry but yes, the suggestion of it also annoys me as I have been working since lockdown and throughout Easter!

I think it would be nice if oak academy lessons were continued and bbc bite size. I don't think it'd be unreasonable to ask kids to do an hour - to two hours a day so maths, reading plus a lesson a day is what I'll be aiming for.

Can't be that onerous as only need a handful of teachers for the whole country.

I also think teachers are well paid. And the long holidays are an enormous bonus. And yet there is a recruitment and retention crisis in teaching that won't be solved by making it less appealing. Apparently lots of people are considering retraining as teachers now they see that during a pandemic we are just expected to sit around doing nothing except piss off parents. We'll see how it pans out.

With all due respect, I think teachers are well paid considering the qualifications required for the role. I don't know of many other sectors where people can earn over £100,000 (as a headteacher) with CCC at A level and a 2:2 degree.

Or imagine this, neighneigh you look at the curriculum for Y5, work out which bits your son hasn't covered and actually go over that with him yourself. Presumably you've not worked seven days a week since he stopped attending school?
Isn't that what you do anyway as a parent?

It's quite strange seeing a person effectively trying to convince people that the work that he/she is paid to do is actually not necessary at all.

Now, I do a job for my living (not teaching). If someone suggested to me that any old amateur could do just as good a job as me, by consulting a few reference manuals/websites and "having a go" at home, I'd be really insulted.

Teachers and the children need a break - my DS's school have been amazing, setting an interesting variety of work, enough for about 3/4 hours a day. Work is marked, and sent back very quickly. I feel really lucky that our school has been able to set this up. Most teachers have been working on a rota since the start of lockdown and deserve the break in the summer!

Namechange!

Out of interest- state/private? Rich/poor area? Good/bad Ofsted?

Good Ofsted, state school, fairly wealthy area

There are very few Head Teachers earning that sort of salary, FrenchSeal, as you no doubt well know. The vast majority of salaries for a normal classroom teacher is capped at around the 40k mark.
And I dare say those A'Level grades you quote are from the good old days when hey were much harder than they are nowadays.
See, we can be goady too.

Aside from all the better about teacher holidays, if children have fallen behind as much as some doom mongers say they have, I can't see how a volunteer staffed summer school will catch them up. In fact, because the right ones won't attend, it will exacerbate, not rectify.
It also won't work at secondary level with the variety in curriculums .

The I find the commissioner's ideas all a muddle. They are from a welfare angle, as befits her role but she won't be clear on what children 'need'.
I do agree some teachers might do this, but only if paid.

And retired teachers will be in higher risk groups. Ofsted got quietly slipped off a list of suggested volunteers!

Blather not better!

There are loads of jobs with people who earn in excess of 100k with no A Levels or degree at all, you know...

I earn over 40k as a teacher. But don't worry, it's OK...I have AAA at A Level and a 2 :1 from an astonishingly good university.