‘Teachers must run summer schools to help pupils to catch up’

[DNAshelicase]

...said the children’s commissioner. Uhmm no hun. I’m a teacher and have already worked through Easter and half term for free, contrary to popular belief we are not paid for holidays. If I’ll be paid handsomely for overtime I’d consider it but tbh I need a break. Wouldn’t get into the profession if we didn’t care about the kids but they aren’t more important than our own kids, the suggestion is a piss take.

I absolutely agree teachers and kids need a break.

However some teachers have been furloughed and were not working. No idea the percentage but I know 4 off top of my head (2 primary, 2 secondary). That isn’t enough of course to teach all the kids - but saying all teachers have been working flat out isn’t accurate.

There may be some who can teach the most disadvantaged kids but I cant imagine enough to get little Jonny his grade 8/9 maths or whatever.

I think what really is needed is a new, more positive relationship between teachers and the public.

Teachers offering to take a voluntary 20% pay cut in recognition of their reduced workloads at present (with the funds freed up going to the NHS and perhaps some treats for nurses like meals out and weekends away), alongside a programme of summer work, would go a long way towards achieving that.

Are you on the wind up, French Seal?

@alittlerespectgoesalongway Compare them to nurses who are also graduates

When nurses knock off, they don’t do any extra work at home. They’re paid overtime if they do extra shifts. When I leave school for the day at 5.30, I’ll still have to do some more work if I haven’t finished marking or planning. Full time teachers generally lose at least part of one of the days at the weekend to work.

I didn’t think state teachers could be furloughed. We have catering staff/nursery staff, employed by the school, who haven’t been working in the last couple of months but have not been allowed to be furloughed.

FrenchSeal would you seriously take a 20% wage cut as a goodwill gesture? What if the reason for the goodwill was naivety on the part of the public or whomever your customer was?

And you've yet to provide evidence of reduced work load. Can you do that too?

When nurses knock off, they don’t do any extra work at home. They’re paid overtime if they do extra shifts. When I leave school for the day at 5.30, I’ll still have to do some more work if I haven’t finished marking or planning. Full time teachers generally lose at least part of one of the days at the weekend to work.

I work with nurses. This is not true - at least not always (and I've lived with teachers who did a lot less work than you say here - which they were happy to admit themselves). And even if it were teachers get more than twice as much holiday which could be seen as TOIL system. I'm not suggesting teachers should earn less just that their per hour earnings are not actually bad compared to similar levels of qualification and responsibility.

Teachers offering to take a voluntary 20% pay cut in recognition of their reduced workloads at present (with the funds freed up going to the NHS and perhaps some treats for nurses like meals out and weekends away), alongside a programme of summer work, would go a long way towards achieving that.

Gr8 b8 m8.
One of the funnier pieces of nonsense I've seen on here in a while, well done!

@alittlerespectgoesalongway

Some teachers will be working hard. However, there is certainly a perception among many parents that a lot of state teachers are doing very little compared to private schools.

Anecdotal I know, but I have two neighbours who are teachers. One primary and one secondary- and both have been regularly out multiple times per day when I'd expect them to be working. These trips have included 3 hour cycle trips, supermarket visits and walks.

Now that the rules have relaxed, one of them had numerous visitors to her garden yesterday throughout the day for drinks and food. I don't know how any work at all could have been done!

I think what should have happened is that the Government should have put guidelines in place for schools to stipulate what work should be provided when schools were 'closed'. They have sent out enough guidance for Primary schools now they want them to 'reopen' so why they couldn't do it before, which would have hopefully sorted out the disparity of work being provided to students. It just seems madness that it was so regulated before, then schools were 'closed' and then nothing. Many schools then took it upon themselves to work out what they should be providing, and whether it should be marked etc.

Hi FrenchSeal. Sorry it I wasn't clear but I was asking for evidence not anecdotes. There is lots of teaching that can happen in evenings etc. and teachers may need to fit in their work around childcare like any other parents or may be choosing to make the most of the sunlight and work in the evenings. I guess you don't have any evidence then?

@FrenchSeal we still don’t know what you do (if anything) for a living, although whatever it is, it allows you to keep close tabs on the teachers you know

French. a commissioned survey (you know, one that goes beyond MN) said 68% of parents were really happy with their children's education during lockdown. Only 7% were actively unhappy.

No. Teachers have already given up their Easter and whit break they also are only contracted to work 1265 hours a year. They aren't paid for the holidays.

Teachers are all postgraduates, by the way. I know many nurses have postgrad qualifications but I feel the need to point out that teachers (unless they have a BEd which are increasingly rare) have a graduate and postgrad qualification .

with the funds freed up going to the NHS and perhaps some treats for nurses like meals out and weekends away
To patronise two professions at once is an astonishing feat!

No state school teachers have been furloughed.

My children are all grown up so the school thing is behind me, however, I always found the September to December term the hardest. It is normally the longest term, they go back to school when it is light nights and relatively warm weather, they end the term with many children travelling to and from school in darkness, with cold weather and for the little ones all the build up to Christmas parties and plays.

The idea that a child would start the September term having already done six weeks summer school makes my mind boggle, how would they last till Christmas? That would be over five months at school with one week off for half term. I think you'd end up with a lot of very tired unhappy children.

Anecdotal I know, but I have two neighbours who are teachers. One primary and one secondary- and both have been regularly out multiple times per day when I'd expect them to be working. These trips have included 3 hour cycle trips, supermarket visits and walks. It's hot, it's sunny, who cares if a teacher goes out for 3 hours, if they are working online, setting and marking work they can do that in the evening, it's called flexible working.

Teachers offering to take a voluntary 20% pay cut in recognition of their reduced workloads at present (with the funds freed up going to the NHS and perhaps some treats for nurses like meals out and weekends away), alongside a programme of summer work, would go a long way towards achieving that. So teachers would be working for 80% pay like people who are furloughed and doing nothing? What a brilliant idea!

You do know that not all nurses are working on Covid wards right. That in some areas nurses and doctors are doing very little, not through choice but because other areas are quiet for a variety of reasons.

@alittlerespectgoesalongway

Hopeclearwater I think teachers are actually well paid for the level of training they have. Compare them to nurses who are also graduates. That said, I think the idea that they should take a pay cut as some sort of goodwill gesture is absurd. Or that they should work for free in the holidays - why would we pick on them to pressure to work in their free time? The holidays are massive but that is the terms and conditions and we can't just change that on a whim. I think there are employment laws to prevent that!

The idea that they've not been working because many children have not been in school is also ridiculous. It takes no less time to look after/ teach a multi-year keyworker group than it does to teach their normal group and there is other non-teaching work (risk assessments and planning etc) that they've been doing as well as any remote learning and contact with pupils.

Agree with much of your post - but just to let you know my DD has just graduated as a nurse.

She is on £24,547 and is thrilled. Had she just graduated as a teacher (which would have taken her one year longer - degree +PGCE) she would be starting on £24,373.

So actually they are comparable - but nurses are slightly better off and do a year's less training. There is a misconception that teachers are well paid and that nurses aren't.

A pp claimed that she knew lots of teachers who were on over £40,000 which is actually absolute bollocks. You need to be Upper Pay Scale 3 to manage that. I've taught for nearly 30 years and am a HoD and that's what I earn. The majority of classroom teachers will not be on that level.

One of mine is a nurse, graduated six years ago and is on £50k in a management role.

Fuck me @1forsorrow - clearly I should have gone in for nursing, not teaching. .

Of course teachers shouldn't be required to provide childcare over the summer holidays.

But there is going to be a need for key workers to be able to access childcare. I can see the sense in using school or nursery sites to provide childcare, run by qualified DSB checked staff, like many holiday schemes run ordinarily.

But it is not the responsibility of teachers to provide or even have to think about this. Holiday childcare is not the responsibility of those whose job is to educate our children.

Social services need to be more involved on the ground. It is not the responsibility of the teaching profession to keep the nation's children fed, watered, safe and occupied for those six weeks.

And yes to needing to move discussions away from 'catching up'. It is not children's or teacher's job to attend or provide education as though there isn't a global pandemic.

The curriculum and end of stage 'targets' should be reviewed in light of what the world is going through. The DoE should be being creative about how to teach and access for the next few years at least.

I am a class teacher, actually sitting in my classroom now making sure I have everything ready for my bubble tomorrow and answering emails. I have a B Ed and a masters, self funded. I don't get any more pay for that and have not asked for it!

I want my class and my classroom back but I promise that the children I have in my bubble will be cared for and taught, my class at home have the next six weeks of home learning planned and I will be zooming with them on Friday then deep cleaning my classroom and preparing for next week. I am not being a martyr this is what it is.

Nobody asked for this situation and nobody wanted it. I don't know any of my colleagues who are happy and enjoying this. Yes I have had time out of class and school over the past weeks. Have I enjoyed it, no. I like my routine, I like my 'normal'. I want it back.