‘Teachers must run summer schools to help pupils to catch up’

[DNAshelicase]

...said the children’s commissioner. Uhmm no hun. I’m a teacher and have already worked through Easter and half term for free, contrary to popular belief we are not paid for holidays. If I’ll be paid handsomely for overtime I’d consider it but tbh I need a break. Wouldn’t get into the profession if we didn’t care about the kids but they aren’t more important than our own kids, the suggestion is a piss take.

The thing is with parents saying 'oh my child's teacher has done bugger all since March' - what you mean is, 'I haven't sought direct contact or an hour by hour breakdown of my child's teacher's working time'.

You have no idea what teachers have been doing while they haven't been in contact with you. If your child is lucky enough that their teacher knows they are safe at home and with a parent who (obviously) will make it very clear if their child has a need they want meeting, probably the teacher has been using their time for other things. Like managing the key worker and vulnerable children. Phone calls. Setting work for other groups. Why don't you ask and get the answers you're looking for instead of casting aspersions when really you have no idea whatsoever.

You also have no idea whatsoever if your child's teacher has a disabled or vulnerable person at home they've had to care for, or what their own working at home situation has been. You're talking about people, not your failing servant.

What I would say is that there is certainly a perception among parents that many teachers have been doing very little. I think offering to run a 6 week summer school or taking a 20% pay cut would help to ameliorate some of the parental anger.

Totally agree with @Gardencuppa, every job has a package of benefits that people sign up to. I think that pay should be increased, in line with expectations.

Frenchseal, I cannot see why on earth I should take a pay cut because some ignorant people have a perception about my job that is incorrect.
Ffs!

DD is 3 and I’m not a teacher, so this is something I hadn’t really thought about, until a conversation sparked the question earlier this week.

In our circle of friends, some children have been being home schooled, some haven’t. It ranges from one family who have been doing four hours a day of homeschooling (Children are year 2 and year 5) to another family who have done none at all (children are year 5 and year 8) and everything in between.

If you take the two year 5 children, in my example above, surely the child who has been doing 4 hours a day is going to be streets ahead of the child who has done nothing? When schools go back full time, how will teachers manage classes of children who are at such wildly different stages of the curriculum?

‘Why don't you ask and get the answers you're looking for instead of casting aspersions when really you have no idea whatsoever. ‘

I for one don’t think my son’s teacher would like it very much if I asked her for an hour by hour breakdown of her working time...

@FrenchSeal

I think offering to run a 6 week summer school or taking a 20% pay cut would help to ameliorate some of the parental anger

The polite answer to this is no.

I am not going to take a 20% pay cut when others have been paid this amount for doing nothing.

And I value my time enough not to give it away for free.

TazSyd

If you take the two year 5 children, in my example above, surely the child who has been doing 4 hours a day is going to be streets ahead of the child who has done nothing? When schools go back full time, how will teachers manage classes of children who are at such wildly different stages of the curriculum?

It is partially for that reason that the government suspended the curriculum.

"When schools go back full time, how will teachers manage classes of children who are at such wildly different stages of the curriculum?"

We will manage because that's our job! No class, anywhere, has all children working at the same level. I work across a 4-stage composite so you would obviously expect a LOT of spread, but a single stage class can have children working at Early, First, Second and Third level (Scottish!) as in my most recent P7 class.

Ok thanks. My post was more sympathy for teachers than a complaint. As to me it sounds like it’s going to be a hard job to manage.

I hadn’t realised that the curriculum had been suspended - the year 5 boy I mentioned above is still getting Maths and English set for him plus they are doing (Oak Leaf Academy I think it’s called) other work and the year 2 child is still doing phonics, as well as other things.

I realise there is always going to be a difference in ability in any class but I was wondering if there would perhaps be mini sets in each class, going forward. It’s a long time since I left school and DD hasn’t started yet so I’m not sure how things work now.

WoollyMollyMonkey

No one has said that the salary stated is annual and you are paid pro rata for 195 days a year.

That salary is for 195 days a year and it is divided to be paid over 12 months. But it is only pay for 9 months of the year.

If we were to work for the summer holidays, we'd need to be paid for an extra 6 weeks or
whatever we were required to work on top of that.

I think offering to run a 6 week summer school or taking a 20% pay cut would help to ameliorate some of the parental anger

Why?

Some people have been furloughed on 80% of their salary. Where is your anger at them?

Some people have been WFH- possibly at less than 100% efficacy and being paid 100% for it. Where is your anger for them?

I have been working and done exactly what my school has required me too. No, it doesn't look like a normal teaching day in most cases but that's something that no teacher had any control over. Anymore more than anyone else who was WFH in less than ideal circumstances.

TazSyd

It is a sensible question.

What I would say is that there is certainly a perception among parents that many teachers have been doing very little. I think offering to run a 6 week summer school or taking a 20% pay cut would help to ameliorate some of the parental anger.

No.

I have worked my normal contracted hours since March and have providing childcare for KW throughout the holidays as well.

Also don’t the year 6 children do SATS, which determine which class they end up in when they start High School? Surely the year 5 child who has been doing 4 hours a day home school is going to have an advantage over the child who has done none?

(I’m a bit concerned for the year 5 child who has done no homeschooling, for other reasons as well).

I just love how people quote on here such baloney about Teacher's contracts!!
I'm a teacher and trade unionist. We are employed for 39 weeks a year 1265 hours our salary is spread over 12 months. Can they enforce Summer Schools staffed by serving teachers? Nope, can they ask for volunteers and pay them? Yes.
I'm so fed up of teacher bashing threads, I have been working teaching online and in School since this pandemic began, I have not been sat at home on full pay!
If it is such a cushy number why not train? There is a shortage but that is weird as its such an easy job right? Hardly! It is brutal, exhausting, makes you paranoid and saps every last inch of self esteem and confidence!

@FrippEnos

I think it would be a nice gesture for teachers to recognise that they have not been completing their normal contracted hours and have not been offering the same level of provision as in school.

I think this could done by accepting a 20% pay cut so they are on the same level as furloughed workers. Alternatively, it would be a good idea for them to offer their services to run summer schools free of charge.

@FrenchSeal

If you want teachers to take the same pay cut as furloughed workers, then teachers should be furloughed.

If you want someone to work for nothing you are having a laugh.

@FrippEnos

But teachers do not work for nothing. They are paid very well- significantly above the national average. I know of many receiving over £40,000 a year.

I don't think it's a lot to ask that teachers use some of their very long holidays (linger than any other sector) for the betterment of their students' lives. It's not like there will be opportunity for holidays overseas in any event.

I don't think it's a lot to ask that teachers use some of their very long holidays

They are NOT paid holidays! Can’t you read?
What’s your job, by the way?

the betterment of their students' lives The biggest factor here is the parents. Not teachers.

I think it would be a nice gesture for teachers to recognise that they have not been completing their normal contracted hours and have not been offering the same level of provision as in school.

Every single person who has posted on here has said that they are not as efficient as they are at work or that their day looks slightly different.

Are you going to demand they retrospectively relinquish 20% of their pay too?

What difference will it make to you if teachers pay this 'penance'? You wont become happier with the provision hour child received and would you call for people who have been furloughed to relinquish some of their 80% pay because, presumably, it would be unfair to expect teacher to fulfill their contractual requirements for 80% pay but allow some people to do nothing for 80% of their pay?

Teachers are on full pay because we have been working and weren't furloughed.

Thee are some genuinely hard of thinking people on here at times 🙄

Also don’t the year 6 children do SATS, which determine which class they end up in when they start High School?

No. They have a broad idea of attainment from primary school assessment data and they assess the pupils themselves throughout the year. Many secondary schools (I won't say all but I dont know of any who don't) don't stream in year 7 anyway to allow for this. Secondary schools don't actually take much notice of sats results in my experience.

significantly above the national average

Not for graduates they’re not.

1/ Teachers should be paid above the national average because they are educated to a level beyond the national average.

2/ With my professional hat on (HR bod but with no specific knowledge of the public or education sector), expecting teachers to do summer school is a variation of contract, which needs to be dealt with carefully.

In my private sector company we sometimes go through a busy period and need x amount of people to do x amount of overtime. We offer it to all, make it clear that it isn’t compulsory and offer a financial incentive for doing it.

If it is decided that summer schools are the way to go then I would expect that teachers would be offered something similar.

FrenchSeal

I can't work out if you're being deliberately goady or are just an idiot.

The 'holiday'/pay situation has been explained ad nauseam now.

@FrenchSeal

Whatever teachers earn is irrelevant.

And their/our holidays are part of our contract.

Whether you understand (or not) that teachers are not paid for their holidays. it doesn't give you the right to expect teachers to work for nothing, or give up their holidays.

And if the holidays bother you that much you could always come and join us. There is a major recruitment and retention crisis we would love for you to join us.

We are not employed for 1265 hours. 1265 is the limit for directed time. The STPCD clearly says we work additional non-directed hours in order to meet our professional responsibilities, and we do ourselves no favours by suggesting otherwise.

That said, the idea that we should have our pay cut to make parents feel better is way off.